Julie DomaratzNov 7, 2022
Mike McHargue

It's actually pretty amazing that a open source product developed by a tiny non-profit, running on a network of servers self-funded by volunteer administrator and moderators has managed to absorb some portion of one of the world's largest for-profit social networks.

It's a miracle the whole thing didn't collapse or catch fire.

Great job everyone.

Nov 7, 2022 at 6:01amWeb
Show threadcliff1976Nov 7, 2022

@mike I would argue it's that group's careful planning and foresight and pure motivation and IDGAF-about-the-status-quo-let's-do-this-RIGHT attitude that made it happen, rather than a miracle... but I'm no less grateful for it. 🤗

Thank you to everyone putting in long hours and investing personal funds and learning as they go. Thank you to all those with helpful advice to newbs (technical or otherwise). Thank you to the newbs for trying something new.

Great job everyone.

Show threadJared 🇦🇺🏳️‍🌈⚧️👽Nov 7, 2022
@mike that's literally everything that powers the internet these days.. from the languages used to build platforms to their hosting, containers and management tools.. It's actually not at all amazing to me it works. It's amazing to me folks are using it and acknowledging it! That's the nice change!
Show threadPaulNov 7, 2022
@mike This is the untold story - there is an assumption that Mastodon has the same scale as Twitter which it really doesn't, it's an actual democratisation of the internet which is amazing to see
Show threadJessica StewartNov 8, 2022
@paulfrankh @mike
I just wonder how sustainable it can be. I don't know how people can go on monitoring a huge site for free...?
Show threadTalonNov 8, 2022
@YourSecondDraft @paulfrankh @mike by splitting it up into lots and lots and lots of tiny little sites instead. We for example only have around 130 people on this particular server. If it stays around there, it should be fine for a very long time!
Show threadWildflowerNov 12, 2022

@YourSecondDraft @paulfrankh @mike

Which is why ppl able to donate should donate

Show threadAmbigram ArtNov 12, 2022
@YourSecondDraft
It's not a huge site, it's many smaller instances.
Rather than scale up it can continue to scale out.
Show threadJeremy EberleNov 7, 2022
@mike Totally agree. Great job, volunteer developers, on the amazing #OpenSource collaboration!
Show threadPaul MaddisonNov 7, 2022
@mike You are spot on Mike, its is a miracle how well they have coped and how well the servers are now performing
Show threadSurely_U_Cant_B_SeriousNov 7, 2022
@mike Currently it is a non profit. This costs someone money and if this outscales the available financing, it may end up not so non profit. But in the meantime.... enjoy
Show threadJimmy HartzellNov 7, 2022
@SurelyUCantBSerious @mike It is not a single "it" though, so that's complicated.
Show thread&drewNov 7, 2022

@SurelyUCantBSerious @mike

That's not really true, because Mastodon is a decentralized system.

The developers have been funded entirely via donations for several years, and couldn't really even turn their creation into a for-profit if they wanted to. The output of their work is an idea, not a product or a service that requires ongoing effort to host.

Show threadSurely_U_Cant_B_SeriousNov 8, 2022
@schmod @mike Where is all this data being stored, who is backing it all up and who is paying for all this? Donations are funding, if they cannot get enough donations as this grows, what will be the solution?
Show thread&drewNov 8, 2022

@SurelyUCantBSerious @mike The answer to that is somewhat complicated.

Your data and timeline are stored on your local server, which for you is mastodon.coffee. They collect donations, and seem to be more than covering their expenses.

Mine is xoxo.zone, which makes its expenses public. So far, we're at $68/mo for about 500 users. https://xoxo.zone/docs/

If the rest of the fediverse vanished tomorrow, your Mastodon experience would still work.

XOXO.zone Readme

Web site created using Markdoc

Show thread&drewNov 8, 2022

@SurelyUCantBSerious @mike

Similarly, if Eugen stopped working on the Mastodon server software, not much would change. We're all running copies of it, and those copies will continue to work indefinitely.

Being decentralized is actually a lot less efficient. It means there are lots of copies of your Toots on lots of servers. But this also adds redundancy, and still only costs a few pennies per user per month.

Show thread&drewNov 8, 2022

@SurelyUCantBSerious @mike With time, it seems plausible that the fediverse becomes part of the general plumbing of the internet.

Maintaining it won't be free, but we'll find ways to make it more efficient, and there will be a lot of folks motivated to keep it online.

Show threadSurely_U_Cant_B_SeriousNov 8, 2022
@schmod @mike Thanks for a thorough explanation.
Show threadSkyler ReedNov 10, 2022
@schmod @SurelyUCantBSerious @mike now that there's more than just an initial state and actual wider recognition, beyond whee new thing like four or five years ago, I know I am motivated to
Show threadundead enby of the apocalypseNov 8, 2022
@mike @SurelyUCantBSerious I don’t see how the entire thing would be able to be made for profit. The software is open source, if they decided to make the software for profit someone would fork it. I can imagine for profit instances but people would probably not use them, since not for profit instances are way more user friendly. Also, I really hope it (whatever it we’re talking about here) won’t be made for profit since that would ruin it and fuck corporations.
Show threadSkyler ReedNov 10, 2022

@enby_of_the_apocalypse @mike @SurelyUCantBSerious That's literally what happened with #Mambo, which I used to get paid to work on, and #Joomla. It didn't go down well. So was the absolute +scandal+ that is #ActiveCollab which took a lot of our hard earned work and effort and turned it into a commercial product, the total opposite of what the community wanted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joomla

https://max.limpag.com/article/activecollab-project-pier-project-management/

Joomla - Wikipedia

Show threadSurely_U_Cant_B_SeriousNov 10, 2022
@skylerwrites @enby_of_the_apocalypse @mike Guess my question was not so preposterous (my word)
Show threadSkyler ReedNov 10, 2022
@SurelyUCantBSerious @enby_of_the_apocalypse @mike No, not at all. It was the open source version of the curse 'may you live in interesting times'. I have seen pull requests you people wouldn't believe, I was given guest passes to the secret #Firefox party and saw the rings of pineapple at the #OSBridge. All those moments lost in chimes. Like tears in rain. 🤖 😭 👩‍🎤
Show threadSurely_U_Cant_B_SeriousNov 10, 2022
@skylerwrites @enby_of_the_apocalypse @mike "like tears in rain" indeed. Memorable line
Show threadSarNov 8, 2022
@SurelyUCantBSerious @mike That's the joy of open source decentralised software - it'll never happen 😅
Show threadStephanie McLean Nov 12, 2022
@mike @SurelyUCantBSerious 🙄
Show threadCatherine BerryNov 7, 2022
@mike , I work as a software engineer at one of the big tech companies, and I say that about the entire Internet every day. 🙂
Show threadHorrorweekly PodcastNov 7, 2022
@mike 100%
Show threadghorwood↙↙↙Nov 7, 2022
@mike never doubt the power of sufficiently-motivated nerds.
Show threadReina  Nov 7, 2022

@mike I hope we'll see more like this. My big hope is that schools across the world will require the usage of FOSS projects. They can start with something simple like switching from their proprietary office packages to LibreOffice. Eventually I hope they'll move over to Linux as well, or potential other future FOSS operating systems.

With schools all over the world depending on FOSS projects, those would likely get a lot more funding and contributions and without all that funding going directly into the pockets of CEOs that have already won capitalism.

Show threadTomas Bruno Choy 🐐🇨🇦Nov 7, 2022
@mike the key is the Mastodon is value-laden instead of profit-seeking. More legacy oriented rather than opportunistic. Nothing wrong with seeking opportunities but it has to happen in a peaceful and wholesome way.
Show threadrichards1052Nov 7, 2022
@mike I think Elon's playtoy is more liable to catch fire considering how badly he's running it, before anything here does.
Show threadcrash-stopNov 7, 2022
@mike the beauty of opensource software and altruism.
Show threadBlue Eyed Hexe 🇺🇲🦆Nov 7, 2022
@mike the tsunami has just started too
Show threadMaineCNov 7, 2022
@mike reminds me of the very early days of the internet when a certain open source webserver developed by volunteers according to their enlightened self interest would run more than half of all http servers online... ;)
Show threadundead enby of the apocalypseNov 7, 2022
@mike This shows us that we don’t need corporations to run social networks. It’s entirely possible to do this with a network of dedicated nerds doing this in their free time, and the end result is actually so much better than corporate social media. The profit motive does in fact not make things better but actually so much worse. We can build parallel structures ourselves without relying on corporations.
Show threadWanderingjimNov 8, 2022
@enby_of_the_apocalypse @mike Agreed, this is what a social network should be. Not an info grabbing corp feeding you "what's trending"
Show threadahabNov 7, 2022
@mike hasn't caught fire _yet_...
Show threadMike McHargueNov 7, 2022
@ahab Definitely some embers today.
Show threadSallyterraNov 7, 2022
@mike
Is this the admins and mods full-time job (as it were)? Or do some/many have full time employment also?
Show threadSpencerNov 8, 2022
@mike @Sallyterra I can only speak for myself, but being the admin here at Motley is a hobby for me. I spend my own time and money to keep my server running, while also working a day job (and having a bazillion other hobbies).
Show threadMike McHargueNov 8, 2022
@Sallyterra I'm not aware of any full time mods or admins anywhere on the fediverse.
Show threadarfonzoNov 8, 2022

@mike everything is on fire, but the admins all over the world are constantly putting it out... 😹

Which is indeed, a testament to their dedication. Twitter's burning $4mil a day, and we're burning servers here in the #fediverse instead!

🔥   🔥

#decentralized

Show threadLeviFettermanNov 8, 2022
@mike pls don’t jinx we don’t want a hellsite
Show threadMike McHargueNov 8, 2022
@LeviFetterman I think I did jinx actually.
Show threadLeviFettermanNov 8, 2022
@mike can u unjinx it bc we have already sunk cost in understanding <waves paws>
Show threadZain SyedNov 8, 2022
@mike the FOSS community always amazes me!
Show threadrockybandit 🥊Nov 8, 2022
@mike 100%. Amazing community.
Show threadAlex HaistNov 8, 2022
@mike like the miracle of Hanukkah for social media (I am culturally Jewish, I can say it)
Show threadMike McHargueNov 8, 2022
@alexhaist 🤣
Show threadStormcrowNov 8, 2022
@mike To our credit, most of us fleeing the bird *want* this to work. We're not bots or trolls or nazis.
Show threadDan Fernandez  Nov 8, 2022
@mike, the amount of work from the instance admins have put into making sure the different instances scale has been incredible. Decentralization at its finest without the “web3” gimmicks.
Show threadWyatt EichholzNov 8, 2022
@mike oh just wait
Show threadArdentArchivistNov 8, 2022
@mike
Indeed.
Buy your local admin a beer or six!
🍻🍻🍻
Show threadSean BootsNov 8, 2022
@mike @Mirgray 💯 💯
Show threadMieke RothNov 8, 2022
@mike totally agree! And a big applause for people like @mastohost who made it possible for a lot of new people to setup a mastodon instance!
Show threaddevonseaglassNov 8, 2022
@mike Private profit versus public munificence.
Show threadStephanie LamyNov 8, 2022

@mike It's actually pretty amazing that a Europe based product & team (with all its "restrictive", aka human rights based, legislation) has managed to absorb some portion of one of the world's largest US for-profit social networks.

That bodes well for the future of mediated social interactions and is a strong signal sent to Silicon Valley.

Show threadjooliarghNov 8, 2022
@mike I'm sure there's something here about self-organising networks of motivated people vs. monoliths with command-and-control approaches. (This is my professional area of interest so I do tend to see it everywhere, mind...)
Show threadJulius FlywheelNov 8, 2022
@mike ..yet :P
Show threadDavid Eccles (gringer)Nov 8, 2022

@mike It's pretty amazing to me that people think computer software should be commercialised. The iPhone and Apple store introduced the world to the illusion that advertising makes software affordable.

Meanwhile, the free software community has been slowly chipping away at the hard problems of scalability, affordability and efficiency, and propping up the world when it breaks.

When the energy barrier is low enough, determined people will hack things until they work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCgc8a85D0E&t=1752s

Go All-In!

YouTube