vagabond"all code is ideology solidified into action" most codeing pushes right wing agenda, this can often seen in the site T&S and in the content that makes it to the front pages. Am curious how hard coded this is, and how much is soft social use.
Bob Mottram :debian:@Hamishcampbell Joseph Weisenbaum also thought that the computing industry was inherently conservative. Computing at scale is capital intensive. People with a lot of money to invest in software R&D tend to be the ruling class. The types of people who get computer science degrees in ivy league universities tend not to be radicals and tend to be from very rich families.
bhaugen@Hamishcampbell
While I agree with your quote, we have very different ideas about both what ideology is and how it works, as well as what are right and left wing agendas.
Ideology is "your social being determines your consciousness".
The left wing agenda to me is "get rid of capitalism".
@bob
I agree with you and Weisenbaum, too.
Altho I do run into enough people in computing projects who are anti-capitalist and want to do something about it that something might happen...
@bhaugen @bob I short circuit the pointless of much thinking by defining the terms #KISS with a tech focus.
Left is open/trust
Right is control/fear
Its pointless to build on compexerty as we live in a "post truth" world powered by #techchurn motivated by #fashernist
With out this #KISS short we go nowhere, kinda like the last few years. Let's build "social truth" or worship the #deathcult the second is "common sense" the first needs a shoval #OMN
I was disagreeing with your explicitly stated definitions of Left and Right and also by inference from those, what you think ideology is and how it works, since you often mention ideology in those terms, and did so in the toot I replied to.
I am sure that your thinking is wider than those short definitions.
What do you think I am disagreeing with that you are not saying?
I short circuit the pointless of much thinking by defining the terms #KISS with a tech focus.
Left is open/trust
Right is control/fear
Its pointless to build on compexerty.
Yep, you would be right, complexity is here, for example much of the history of #mainstreaming 20th century left is rightwing as it's based on fear/control, think Stalin or the British Labour party.
Early web #mainstreaming it's clearly built on open/trust etc.
@bhaugen @bob are we building a bridge or tearing down a bridge here. In the "post truth" world building foundations is a revolutionary act #4opens #OGB #OMN #indymediaback #PGA
Tell me about the bridge you are building, were it comes from, were it goes, what are the foundation stones that support it.
Ps. A bridge with our people is just a pile of rocks.
@Hamishcampbell @bhaugen @bob On your characterization of left and right wing politics, I don't agree because it's more complicated.
In Noble Ape the cognitive system is modelled as an emergent dialectic between fear and desire, so your idea is similar to that.
I am relatively open to new ideas about how to use social networks. Epicyon is supposed to be a minimal ActivityPub implementation with some lightweight organizing features added, like shared items and calendar. A habitable zone in the chaos of the internet. I also have a sense of the things which failed in the past, so am trying to avoid the pitfalls which lead to people becoming demobilised.
If there is hope, it lies with the proles. In particular, devising better ways to build small scale viable economies could be a way forward. Sharing without the use of money. Hospitality systems. We also need to avoid systems which generate concentrated political power and "rockstars". In the hacker world, such people have done a lot of damage in the past. I also think we should stick to person-to-person methods of establishing trust, and avoid scoring systems or cryptographic contracts which can easily be gamed and weaponized by adversaries.
In Noble Ape the cognitive system is modelled as an emergent dialectic between fear and desire, so your idea is similar to that.
I am relatively open to new ideas about how to use social networks. Epicyon is supposed to be a minimal ActivityPub implementation with some lightweight organizing features added, like shared items and calendar. A habitable zone in the chaos of the internet. I also have a sense of the things which failed in the past, so am trying to avoid the pitfalls which lead to people becoming demobilised.
If there is hope, it lies with the proles. In particular, devising better ways to build small scale viable economies could be a way forward. Sharing without the use of money. Hospitality systems. We also need to avoid systems which generate concentrated political power and "rockstars". In the hacker world, such people have done a lot of damage in the past. I also think we should stick to person-to-person methods of establishing trust, and avoid scoring systems or cryptographic contracts which can easily be gamed and weaponized by adversaries.
@Hamishcampbell
I agree with everything @bob wrote.
For myself, I am not sure what you mean by bridges. You wrote "a pile of rocks". I got a few of those.
Concretely, what I am focusing on these days is https://www.valueflo.ws/
It's a vocabulary for distributed independent systems to internetwork economically, as in the fediverse. Aimed at #interoperability
So far, in the fediverse, implemented by @bonfire and @bob says they are implementing http://www.datafoodconsortium.org/ which is related.
@bhaugen @bob @bonfire @bob your project is a bridge, it gets (open) data from one place to another.
Its not the approach I would choice as a main flow but it's as valid and usefull for meany people so as far as it's #4open I support it, looks good, would you say bronze, silver or gold https://unite.openworlds.info/Open-Media-Network/4opens/wiki
> Its not the approach I would choice
What would you choose? Remember, this is about economic #interoperability
Social interop shd be covered.
> would you say bronze, silver or gold
Spinach. Or maybe mustard greens? Goosefoot?
@Hamishcampbell
Mustard greens are much tastier than precious metals.
Who was promoting folksonomy here again?
@bhaugen @bob @bonfire @bob you are riggaling, do the #4opens test you can find examples here https://unite.openworlds.info/Open-Media-Network/4opens/issues to base this off,
Post it as an "issue" on the unite site to add this to the #4opens commons.
Of course with the #OMN you could just publish it on your site and if it was trusted it would end up in the right place. But we do not have this tech so we end up centralised and controlled at every step.
You make a good organic point here... maybe we can have a selection of badges.
* Traditional = metal
* New = organic
Would you like to name 3 organic badges for the #4opens
The project is a people who put the work in get the power, with basic #4opens process which for now is pretty much announcing things on #openweb, #failbook and #twitter then just doing it if no feedback
Chaotic #KISS is good for ruff consensus :)
@Hamishcampbell
> Would you like to name 3 organic badges for the #4opens
No. I like the 4opens but am not fond of badges. I do understand that means I am just too old...
OK, I have put the text out on #openweb #failbook and #twitter, let's see if anyone steps up to take a little power.
If not I end up doing it my self, which is NOT the project, but poverty is poverty, and you have to make the most of it to live.
Though if people don't focus at some point to step up to take a little power we are truly FUCKED, and not in a good way :)
@Hamishcampbell
Ah, you answered my question while I was posting it.
Yeah, that's possibly viable. Or both approaches might converge: suggest a standard, and let chaos roam and converge. Both will most likely happen anyway.
However, remember that the ActivityPub standard grew the fediverse quite a lot, and I see you advocating more standarization. Or did I misunderstand?
The formal aproch and the chaotic aproch can feed each other if the code is standardised to bridge the gap.
We have the hiracys built into bridge to more formal structure you just flow the formal data into the base foksonermy. Both aorproches work and have value.
As long as we share a common #4opens standards in place to bridge.
People choice were value is added and how value is found
@Hamishcampbell
Might even work!
@bhaugen @bob @bonfire @bob if we can start by bridgeing the #geekproblem to get both approaches implement with a common standard to pass data to each.
This is the big IF am talking about, the only bridge that has actually worked in the last 10 years was mastodon implementation of #Activertypub and the white lies that got people to use it.
Closed is still king.
hamish campbellThat last one is out not our :)
Mayel
Parienve@Hamishcampbell
Well-written software avoids making assumptions about how it will be used. So, a site can swap out content sorting algorithms to suit its current agenda. But projects usually hard-code at least one thing: the license of the project's code. FOSS licenses are libertarian (left and right), and other kinds of licenses are authoritarian.
Well-written software avoids making assumptions about how it will be used. So, a site can swap out content sorting algorithms to suit its current agenda. But projects usually hard-code at least one thing: the license of the project's code. FOSS licenses are libertarian (left and right), and other kinds of licenses are authoritarian.