Activist@Ajz @erincandescent That's bad news. Public transport is much worse on the environment than #cycling. Making public transport gratis while bicycles have procurement & maintenance costs incentivizes environmental harm. The costs are likely coming from income tax, so cyclists are likely subsidizing busses. Fuck that. Public transport /should/ cost more than cycling.
@erincandescent @Ajz It's also disturbing to see that Mobilite Gratuite sends ppl to Google Playstore's exclusive #walledgarden to get the app, pushing users to give their ph# to #google.
Dick Smiths Fair Go Supporters@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo
Roads into the #CBD at #peakHour should have a cost too. In #Australia we have an onerous #carRegistration tax that requires people to use their car to get value out of the registration.
50c in in the morning, 50c out in the evening.
#peakHourToll #environment #airPollution #carbonTax #congestion #fairness #equality #regionalAustralia #farming #infrastructureCosts #investment #auspol #ruralAustralia
Henry Edward Hardy@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @[email protected] @[email protected]
So... that's great for able-bodied people.
Where's that leave those of us who can't bike for medical reasons?
Bicycles are *not* a replacement for public transit.
I do not own a car. Do you?
If so, please stop virtue signalling to the rest of us. K' thx.
@hhardy01 @erincandescent @Ajz I'm not sure why you think disabled or elderly ppl cannot get seperate pricing. In Brussels, for example, seniors get discounts on public transport and probably handicapped as well. There's no ethical problem with gratis public transport for the disabled, b/c cycling is not an option anyway.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @[email protected] @[email protected]
The OP was attacking public transport, comparing it unfavorably with bicycles.
Jasper 🍉@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @Ajz @erincandescent hard disagree. Having tickets means you need systems and enforcement. That causes inconvenience and cost. Electronically is convenient, but reduces privacy.
And the ticket cost isn't the only cost, convenience and time another. For long distances, bicycles just take too long and don't compete with trains at all. And bicycles you go straight to where you want to be, busses do one route, leaving at a time and place you are not.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @Ajz @erincandescent once you're in a bus, it takes less mental capacity, i guess. Also if it rains you don't get wet. Also disabled people who cannot bicycle can use them.
Bicycles have an effect of depressing the revenue of busses. (just saying, it exists, bicycling is better) Also trolley busses are a way to make busses more environmentally friendly, and are way cheaper than trams.(but people will whine about the overhead cables)
@jasper @erincandescent @Ajz W.r.t weather, there is never bad weather, only bad clothes. Disabled ppl usually have a special subsidy; not sure about Luxembourg but certainly there is no reason they can't give exceptional treatment to the disabled.
@Ajz @erincandescent @jasper Electric public transport vehicles do not escape environmental harm. They are heavy, & they add strain to the grid; the power plant that supports them still pollutes. They are no match for cycling - not in the slightest
@jasper @erincandescent @Ajz it's also wrong to say public transport is more convenient than cycling. You still have to get to and from the stops, and usually must transfer and wait. I did public transport for 5 yrs then switched to cycling. Cycling is faster once you factor in the time to/from stops and waiting times, and the fact that subway downtime is always sudden & leaves travellers helpless.
Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @jasper @erincandescent @Ajz
I just had a quick look at some transport info about Luxembourg - cycling is already popular and quite safe there and it is allowed to take bicycles on the bus and train (which seems to be a common practice in many nations in Continental Europe), - the two forms of transport aren't mutually exclusive..
@vfrmedia @Ajz @erincandescent @jasper i bought a fold-up bike thinking I would cycle to the station. It's not as practical as it seems. You still have to wait for the tram, folding is a hassle as well as trying to cram in with other ppl. For those reasons it's rare to see ppl doing both. Not that it matters-- even if a cyclist uses the tram they are still an equal burdon - even more so in fact.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @Ajz @erincandescent @jasper
how easy it is depends a lot on the country/region - folding bikes are used a fair bit on the trains in and around London, its harder getting a full size bike on a train elsewhere in England (you have to prepare for this).
What I definitely have seen is trains and buses (particularly in mainland Europe) with space set aside for bikes, people often upload pictures of these to Flickr (still a very good source of train/bus photos)
@vfrmedia @jasper @erincandescent @Ajz sure, but those commuters are creating a bigger burdon than those who walk to the station. There's no reason their commute should be gratis. Cyclists who do not burdon public transport should get the best price, which means charging those who use public transport.
@Ajz @erincandescent @jasper @vfrmedia in Denmark they have whole train/tram cars just for bicycle storage, which means the vehicle has to be bigger and haul more.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @Ajz @erincandescent @jasper
I haven't delved deeply into the public sector finances of Luxembourg (or Denmark), but its likely the cost of ticket controls, barriers etc outweighs the losses from giving away the service.
Consider also there is less demand for mail coaches these days with more electronic mail, offsetting any extra cost of putting on bike carriages. In any case these enhancements help to encourage people not to use cars in the cities >>
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @Ajz @erincandescent @jasper
I live in England, and outside London (and Manchester) everywhere is heavily car dependent - I didn't have a car for 30 years, rode my bike everywhere for about 20, until I moved some distance outside London/SE England and got a job in a rural area (where buses are notoriously patchy and cycling on the road not always safe).
Just a fraction of what is being done in LU, DK, NL or BE would be very beneficial here..
@vfrmedia @jasper @erincandescent @Ajz BE subsidizes about 66% of everyone's public transport ticket. ~$570/yr or whatever it is now is cheap, but not so cheap as to discourage cycling. Where BE screws up is street parking for cars at ~30 eur/year in Brussels communes. It's sick. It should be 3k eur/yr to park a car on the street. All the tax-deductible "business" cars in BE are also quite despicable.
@Ajz @erincandescent @jasper @vfrmedia Cyclists are denied the right to build a small garage in their own home b/c it will prevent a car from parking on the street in front of their house. The politicians drive cars & the car lobby is powerful there.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @Ajz @erincandescent @jasper
in England you need to get planning permission to build a garage for cars or a driveway, but there is nothing stopping you putting a bike store in the space your front garden might occupy, although many people (myself included) keep bikes inside the house (stops them getting nicked!).
Probably some local zoning law being interpreted in a less than rational manner (maybe due to negative lobbying from car owners)
@vfrmedia @jasper @erincandescent @Ajz planning permission is possible only if it's an unofficial garage. Which means no "no parking" sign. It's also illegal to cycle on the sidewalk. Planning permission for official garages is nearly impossible if there is street parking.
@Ajz @erincandescent @jasper @vfrmedia to worsen matters, the street parking is for residents, which is really fucked up. It means the street is so ram-packed with cars a cyclist (or anyone) cannot accomodate a car-driving visitor who drives a distance.
@vfrmedia @jasper @erincandescent @Ajz the street parking should be for visitors only, and charged hourly or daily to discourage residents.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @jasper @erincandescent @Ajz
my street is still "first come, first served" for street parking (which can be a hassle when people working in construction park work vehicles) - where my relatives live (closer to London) they have residents parking scheme (they don't even have a car!) there is some ticket they have for visitors (its free, but you have to put that in your car windscreen or you get a £30 (35€) fine). Not sure what will happen when EVs become more popular!
@vfrmedia @Ajz @erincandescent @jasper some EU regions have banned fuel-burning cars (including hybrids), which eventually solves of the problem of EVs competing for parking. But EVs aren't much better. A big environment price is paid making them, and all the batteries, ultimately to still drag on the grid.
@Ajz @erincandescent @jasper @vfrmedia In the US it would be illegal for a commuter to deduct their car costs as a business expense. Yet in Belgium it's the norm. It's a bizarre inversion where the US does right by the environment (incidentally) & Europe doesn't.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @Ajz @erincandescent @jasper
AFAIK the benefits for a company car are different in every European country - the UK does have some but they are now recalculated to incentivise EV's (rather than diesel) and encourage lower emissions vehicles.
NL doesn't seem to have as many company car benefits as its neighbours..
Strypey@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo
> Electric public transport vehicles ... are heavy
Much less heavy than all the cars they displace, for the same number of people transported.
> the power plant that supports them still pollutes
Not if it runs on #RenewableEnergy sources.
@strypey @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo trolley busses don't need much battery, and i wouldn't be surprised if electromotors have a better Watt/kg than fuelled ones..
@jasper @erincandescent @Ajz the cost, inconvenience, & #privacy compromise of ticketing are all advantages to choosing cycling over public transport. Taking those advantages away further removes incentive to cycle. AFAIK, Luxembourg did not make trains gratis, so trains aren't relevant.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @Ajz @erincandescent bicycles being often more convenient and not that strongly competing with busses was exactly my point?
Meanwhile handicapped, people arriving by train(not having a folding bike) need busses to go around. It'd be awful for these people if they don't have any option.
I don't want to act right-wing "how do you pay for it", when someone has to pay for it anyway, and that's less wealthy people if it's the riders themselves, *and* it causes overhead..
@jasper @erincandescent @Ajz The cycling option is not competing with those who aren't able to cycle, so obviously there's no problem with subsidizing that demographic. It's subsidizing everyone else that's a problem. You don't need to give able-bodied Alice a free ticket, just disabled Bob.
@Ajz @erincandescent @jasper Luxembourg's gratis public transport policy is for everyone, not just seniors and disabled ppl, and that's the problem.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo
In China, I cycle whenever possible. But when I want to go somewhere on the other side of the city, I don't bike for 2 hours or more each way, I take the subway or a taxi. If the subway was gratis, I would never take a taxi. This is an example, as others have already mentioned, of how #PublicTransport displaces car use, not cycling.