âYouâll Have Had Your Teaâ: the thread about a press fabrication of a popularised myth
This thread was originally written and published in May 2023.
In June 1983, the City of Glasgow launches its fondly remembered âGlasgowâs Miles Betterâ advertising slogan, as seen below in curious company with Margaret Thatcher. This confident, cheerful self-promotion of the City is something that Glasgow seems much more comfortable and at home with than Edinburgh and its more recent, insipid, uninspiring, cringeworthy attempts like âInspiring Capitalâ or âIncredinburghâ.
âPortrait of Margaret Thatcher, Glasgowâs Miles Better Campaignâ, Norman Edgar. Photograph from Lyon & Turnbull auction listing, August 2013, where it fetched ÂŁ1,062
Of course if you focus-grouped a sample of self-respecting Glaswegians on what Edinburghâs slogan should be, you would likely find âYouâll Have Had Your Teaâ in amongst the responses. As any resident of that City will tell you, in Glasgow theyâll ask you if you want to come in for your tea, in Edinburgh youâll get the former cold response. Which all got me thinking⌠(you know where this is going now, donât you?) Just where and when does the phrase/jibe âYouâll Have Had Your Teaâ come from?
Now, if youâll Google this for yourself youâll find what I consider to be an incredulous claim that it originates with Mackintosh of Borlum of all characters, in 1729. If you donât know the story of the eccentric Brigadier, itâs worth a refresh. By 1729, he was an ageing Jacobite has-been, noted for his spectacular military derring-do in the 1715 rebellion, matched only by his incompetence as a leader. By 1729 the septugenarian warrior lived in captivity in Edinburgh under bond. It is claimed that our hero tired of being offered the faddish new drink of tea, which he found weak and effeminate, and so went around informing his hosts that he had âhad his teaâ in order that he could instead move straight on to a harder, manlier drink.
William Mackintosh the Younger of Borlum, as a colonel in French service, c. 1707. From âBrigadier Mackintosh of Borlum, Jacobite Hero and Martyrâ, A. M. Mackintosh, 1918
Indeed, Mackintosh *does* write of tea in some disgust in 1729. He even writes the phrase âI am now asked if I have had my teaâ. Case closed. Right? But the problem is, those 10 words are only a cherry-picked selection of what he fully wrote and without the rest, the context of what he was complaining about is gone and the meaning changes. What he wrote was, firstly:
- âFormerly I had been served with two or three substantial dishes of beef, mutton and fowl, garnished with their own wholesome gravy. I am not served up little expensive ashets with English pickles, Indian mangoes and anchovy saucesâ
And secondly:
- âWhen I come to a friendâs house of a morning, I used to be asked if I had had my morning draught yet. I am now asked if I have had my tea and in lieu of the big quaich with strong ale and toast, and after a dram of good wholesome Scots spirits, there is now the tea-kettle put to the fire, the tea-table and silver and china equipage brought in, and marmalade and creamâ
So what Borlum is actually complaining about is not about the coldness of his reception in Edinburgh, itâs quite the opposite â itâs all too nice. He is discontent that in the post-Union, Georgian capital of âNorth Britainâ, Scottish culinary culture has been changed and gentrified by English influences and. Gone are hearty meat and drink, and in are delicate teas, condiments, scones and pleasantries. He is not being asked âYouâll have had your teaâ so that his hosts donât have to give him any, heâs being asked so that they can serve him the latest trends in conversational dining and drinking, and are most insistent on giving them to him even if heâd rather drink and belch!
That Googled explanation just doesnât ring true â so how did it come to be on the internet as âfactâ? If you read it on the internet it must be true, yes? Where does the source of this spurious claim originate? The earliest I can trace it back to is a single unreferenced line in an anonymous compendium of Edinburgh âfactsâ (many of them demonstrably dubious) on the Scotsman website some 20 years ago. Much of what is in the list is true, but an not insignificant amount is either not or is wishful thinking.
Scotsman.com, 29th May 2003, archived copy
The following year, London-based travel writer Benedict Le Vay included a variation of this explanation in his book âEccentric Edinburghâ, a travel-guide to the city from the âEccentricâ series by Chalfont St. Peter-based publisher Bradt Travel Guides. This series is a light-hearted âinsiders guideâ to cities, trying to find their âhidden corners and spooky storiesâ that others guides donât cover. So itâs not a reference work by any stretch of the imagination, and ofference no provenance for this explanation.
Page 142, âEccentric Edinburghâ, Benefict Le Vay, 2004
The Mackintosh of Borlum trail goes cold for about a decade, resurfacing in the Scotsmanâs online sister publication âiâ in the best traditions of Johnston Press churnalism. The unverified story has now established itself as âfactâ, and now propagates itself through blogs and social media with the respectable sounding references pointing (in good faith) to two newspapers (which should know better) and a well-selling travel book from an established author and publisher.
inews.co.uk, 9th March 2017
So if that is what the origins of âYouâll Have Had Your Teaâ are not, then what are they? Well, the earliest I can find the phrase in print is in 1938, used by the sports journalist, columnist, playwright and comedic author and poet Albert Mackie, who had a particular love of vernacular patter. Edinburgh born and bred, but often working in Glasgow, he wrote a light-hearted essay entitled âThe Pleasures of Edinburghâ in a book â called simply âScotlandâ â edited by J. R. Allan and released to coincide with the Empire Exhibition in Glasgow in 1938.
âLaugh Out Lout at Talking Glasgowâ, Albert Mackie
But Mackie was not writing here in jest at his home city, rather in defence of it. He was pointing out that âYouâll Have Had Your Teaâ was exactly the sort of jibe that a Glaswegian would come up with in their never-ending mission to let the whole world know they are the friendliest people on the planet. But we canât credit him with conjuring the saying itself â only writing it down â as itâs clearly an established and recognised phrase at that time in Scotland by the way he refers to it. However I cannot find it printed before then in books or newspapers.
â
The Pleasures of Edinburghâ by Albert Mackie, from â
Scotlandâ, edited by J. R. Allan, 1938
Of course, there are other cities in Scotland beyond Edinburgh and Glasgow (not that the denizens of either of those places would have you believe it), and the phrase pops up again next in the Dundee Courier in 1945, in a jokes column entitled âHeard on the Tramâ, but with the butt of the joke extended to Aberdonians.
âHeard on the Tramâ, Dundee Courier- Thursday 18 October 1945
In 1953, the football writer Tom Nicholson â another son of Edinburgh â brought the saying up again in a Daily Record column called âTom Nicholson Accuses / Charles Shankland Repliesâ where the form was for the pair to have amusing arguments over sport and Edinburgh vs. Glasgow relations. It appears intermittently thereafter in print, particularly in Glasgowâs Daily Record / Sunday Mail. In 1970 the latterâs columnist, novelist Jan Webster (1924-2002), attributed it to Scottish women in general as a phrase used when guests were being politely told not to stay too long. In 1978, Record writer Max Hodes published it in his âOfficial Scottish Joke Bookâ. Hodes wrote âfunniesâ for the paper and like Tom Nicholson and Albert Mackie, was an Edinburgh man, writing for a Glasgow publication. So perhaps the joke is really on Glasgow given it is Edinburgh men who popularised it in their papers.
It isât just comedy writers who have imortalised the phrase however; the autobiographies of the prominent figures of Sir Ludovic Kennedy (1990) and Ian Hamilton KC (1994, who as a law student in 1950 was one of the gang who liberated the Stone of Destiny from Westminster back to Scotland) both use the phrase with a fondness when recalling their time in Edinburgh. Nevertheless the saying continues to pop-up endlessly in coffee table books about Edinburgh and Scottish culture, such as âEdinbuggers vs. Weegiesâ by Ian Black of 2003, which goes as far as suggesting a more modern ending to it (and who really actually says âEdinbuggersâ anyway?)
Weegies vs. Edinbuggers, Ian Black, 2003
A more outlandish â and even more improbable than Mackintosh of Borlum â provenance for the saying is Reginald Hill, who controversially attributes the saying to Yorkshire in one of his âa âDalziel and Pascoeâ novels! But â in print at least â he seems to be the only person making this particular claim. Most unusually, it has come to my attention (thank you to Al McVittie for this insight) that the phrase âYouâll Have Had Your Teaâ appears in a 1974 episode of the childrensâ TV show Bagpuss, featuring Hamish the tartan pincushion and Tavish McTavish.
âYouâll Have Had Your Teaâ with Hamish and Tavish McTavish, Bagpuss, 1974
The saying was revitalised and spread to a wider audience in the 1990s and noughties by Graeme Garden (an Aberdonian) and the late, great, Barry Cryer in their âIâm Sorry I Havenât a Clueâ improv characters Hamish and Dougal, who always open their sketches with the saying. This resulted in a spin-off series called, imaginatively, âYouâll Have Had Your Teaâ. The basic characters apparently date back to 1979, which coincidentally was when the Oxford Theatre Group ran a late-night Fringe review show in Edinburgh called⌠âYouâll Have Had Your Tea!â
Iâm Sorry I Havenât a Clue, the Doings of Hamish & Dougal. BBC Audio cover.
So there isnât any one, definitive source of this saying. It was definitely popularised and a recognised part of inter-city rivalry by the time it was first put in print in 1938 and Edinburgh men writing in the Scottish press kept it alive thereafter. But I can categorically state that it was not Mackintosh of Borlum who gave us the saying back in 1729 and if anything this is a salutary lesson in the dangers of unreferenced, anonymous âlisticlesâ being published and republished by seemingly reputable sources and crystallising over time into hard âfactsâ.
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