@thatbrickster @orekix @Hyolobrika @inference The flaw with #Protonmail is that it relies on on-the-fly #JavaScript. A smart user can use #Electronmail or #hydroxide to counter the threat of malicious JS, but then when Protonmail pushes their #CAPTCHA things get dicey.

@dsfgs @pj The only control for that scenario is for the user to run a client that bundles in audited JS. #Electronmail demonstrates that scenario. Since #Protonmail will comply with Swiss court orders, you wouldn’t want to visit protonmail.ch from just any browser and download the JS dynamically if Swiss courts are in your threat model. You'd want to download Electronmail anonymously.

@eloquence @cnx BTW, this article is good but misses an important point: https://web.archive.org/web/freedom.press/training/protonmail-pro/ Harlo Holmes warns that malicious js could compromise users but gives no remedy to that. She should suggest #ElectronMail & #Hydroxide as ways to avoid on-the-fly javascript.

@kzimmermann @dianoetic And for expert users there is #Hydroxide which is leaner & also benefits from static js (as #Electronmail does)... right up until #Protonmail pushes a CAPTCHA, at which point Hydroxide falls over & (bloated) #Electronmail becomes essential. The use case for hydroxide is that sometimes experts need to talk to normies & doing a key exchange is enough to alienate normies.

@dianoetic @kzimmermann #Protonmail has the same vulnerability to subpoena power that #Hushmail has: the server can push malicious javascript that grabs whatever the server admin wants, including but not limited to the private key. There is a defense that's possibly in reach for normies-- running #ElectronMail over Tor, which uses static (potentially reviewed) javascript that's anonymously downloadable.

@jasper @ashwinvis @silmathoron It's safer to use #Electronmail because the javascript is static, potentially reviewed, and you can obtain it anonymously. So if Protonmail were to serve malicious js targeted to you, you would never execute it. But note that Electronmail is broken in #Debian #Bullseye.

@celia @telroy Ah, I think I found the answer to that: https://github.com/emersion/hydroxide/issues/179 Apparently a GUI login is needed with Firefox as a precondition to using #Hydroxide. Which BTW brings security risks because AFAIK you must run #Protonmail's on-the-fly #JavaScript (instead of #Electronmail).