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@codinghorror Ignoring GMI feasibility for now, what does data tell us about how well adults do when not at work or school?
(Retired folk living off assets or big pension provide some data on Olds.)
@codinghorror The data says work is still needed
https://www.perplexity.ai/search/0accaeec-5343-46a4-947c-53a9d3256030
@codinghorror I don’t know how humanity makes this transition, or if we can, but I suspect subsidized work will be part of the picture.
There are weird inversions. In a world where intellect is free Baumol Cost Disease tells us human interactions will be high value. Baristas make 6-7 figures, finance bros have subsidized work.
I believe the point is "should the work be essential for survival, or can we all agree that we all deserve to have a life regardless of work?"
When people are presented with the option to not work, they usually choose it. And then they find something else to do with their time, they find "meaning" in other activities outside of work.
Waged work shouldn't be linked to survival, nor should be the reason for "meaning" in life.
So work without compensation?
Currently:
You sell your labour for a wage.
You spend your wage for food and shelter in order to have a life.
Summary: work is essential for survival
My point:
Everyone's basic needs are met (including food and shelter)
You spend your time however you like, including doing activities that we currently see as "work".
Summary: your survival is not dependant whether or not you have a job
Please, forgive the oversimplification, but I hope the point is clearer, now.
@codinghorror @curious_carrot @jgordon for what it's worth I would connect man to the animal kingdom.
Perhaps that is some old phraseology, but the idea is that all animals in nature work, and their rewards are connected to work.
There certainly are individuals who, having all their needs filled, can create quests for themselves, but not without risk.
See also celebrity rehab.
Of course it is. And there will always be work. It was after the steam hammer was invented, it was after washing machines and after harvesters.
What changes is the nature of the work. How much work is necessary for bare survival, how much we can freely chose, what we want to do.
After all, hosting a party is work, too.
@xilebo @codinghorror Yes, this is the “lump of labor fallacy position”. I think there are two problems with it:
1. non-equilibrium: It takes at least decades to adjust to a large shift in the means of production. That adjustment can be violent.
2. Not everyone does every job well. Continuing on my Barista example (see this thread) — most finance geeks could not contend against top-talent highly compensated Baristas.
Yes, that adjustment has been violent in the past. But a lot of that violence was due to the fact, that people needed the work to pay for basic necessities. A social security system, ideally UBI can greatly soften the impact of those adjustments and give people time to address problem 2.
Because yes, people have different skillsets. And not everybody can just learn new skills. And they should not have to.
But everybody has a way they can contribute to society.
1/2
Everybody has a way they can contribute - but those ways are not always paid. For example, my uncle organises a city/block festival each year. There are a lot of helpers and no one gets paid.
I want to say more, but I have to do other stuff now and will probably lose my train of thought. I hope, I still could understandably express, what I want to say here.
2/2
I don't know the roots of the violence, but certainly facing homelessness and poverty played a role.
So it sounds like when you say "there will always be work" you didn't mean there would be work that people could earn money for?
What do you mean by "work"?
GMI is just as much of a pipe dream as UBI in a world where billionaires want the flow of money under their complete control. "Work and we will take care of you" is just as much of a lie coming out of corporations as "we're from the government and we're here to help." You just saw Musk rip out financial and labor support on any government agency that sends money or resources to citizens. If the GOP had 3/4ths majority control of the Senate and House, these organizations would be closed today.
Contempt for the masses is at the root of the issue, not worker "efficiency." But I already know the response to this. "This isn't a problem for technology to solve." But it is a problem to profit off of.
I'm not accusing you directly, but I wholly disagree with AI as an answer to inequality. Whether I use it or not, the layoffs are coming and the son of the boss or some other recipient of the grand lottery of "remaining vacant tech positions" will do what is left of my job regardless of what I do. And when it happens, I'll be at fault for it, I'm sure.
It’s like saying why would you ever want to make a piece of furniture by hand from solid wood when IKEA could make you a fiberboard version that is kinda shitty but you just stick it together with dowels.
So yes, fighting it is probably futile but also it’s sad and software is going to suck. (2/2)
@codinghorror @medley56 @gvwilson
> I don't wear sweaters, man.
You're missing out. Men of a certain age must lean towards cardigans. This is the way.
@codinghorror @medley56 @gvwilson
Poets, priests, and politicians
Have words to thank for their positions
@codinghorror @womble
I remember someone, somewhere asking, then answering the question of who so many really scientific discoveries were done by priests.
They a) had little actual work to do, this lots of free time, b) generally very literate, c) had housing and food support from the community and/or The Church itself.
So... Free time, Education and... UBI lead to ... Scientific Advances.
Who knew the church was so Woke & Socialist‽ 😜
@codinghorror @womble related:
I hate the phrase "they have too much time on their hands" used as a perjorative aimed at artists, innovators, and more and more often, "basic" research.
Flip it: imagine what more could be done by them and everyone else given the freedom from having to worry about how they will pay next months' rent, heating, power, grocery bills.
The amount of cognitive load devoted to just surviving is killing our ability to thrive.
@codinghorror @RyeNCode @womble
Then I look forward to your death!
I offer my services as executioner.
@codinghorror @RyeNCode @womble
I will settle for you donating your fortune to a charity.
And cease grifting the poor morons who believe anything you say.
@codinghorror
Can't we automate the execution?
@markotway @codinghorror @RyeNCode @womble
Haha, not much of a tech revolution if it can't topple its masters.
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