Bob Mottram
Mastodon proposes another non-private privacy scheme. I don't think this leads anywhere good, other than users ending up confused and sometimes doxed. Times are tough, and fake privacy may really put some people in danger. Mastodon doesn't need to do all the things, and most people are already using good enough private chat systems which genuinely implement public key encryption. Just add a way of linking to that.
Jul 15, 2017 at 7:09amWeb
Show threadLohan GunaweeraJul 15, 2017

@bob oh noes. That's what Facebook promises you :-/

#FakePrivacy

Show threadBob MottramJul 15, 2017
@lohang or Twitter DMs
Show threadEugen RochkoJul 15, 2017
@bob Have you read this https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/4208 before writing this message?
Show threadPaul Free (14 Ⓐ, europe)Jul 16, 2017

@Gargron @bob
what's the reason for not using #xmpp?
why to do it:
- encrypted conversation possilbe
- it is used on other plattforms, so you easly could speak to each other (it's already used by nextcloud, and friendica)
- ppl can join other chat channels
(MOC, IRC, matrix....)
- it is a wide spread standart, so more likly that other plattforms will follow using it as a chat system

that's how it looks in nextcloud: https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/ojsxc

Show threadBob MottramJul 16, 2017
@paulfree14 @gargron Integrating xmpp might be one way to go. The other would be to implement something like Hubzilla's server based privacy. Neither would be ideal since keys would still reside on the server, but it's one variety of threat model.
Show thread⚒⚛​🏴​Jul 16, 2017
@bob @paulfree14 @Gargron +💯 for #xmpp integration!
Show threadmuppethJul 16, 2017
@bob @paulfree14 @Gargron @Melezh would rather see matrix integration. Matrix has better room discovery which leads to having boost in amount of users and thus community around the project. I've seen it happening to numerous irc/xmpp rooms that once they were bridged to matrix the number of users sky rocket.
Show threadPaul Free (14 Ⓐ, europe)Jul 16, 2017

for those not knowing #xmpp or #matrix.
both are chat standarts which allow encrypted conversations.

Also there are many great chatrooms ppl could join by that through mastodon.

The approach of matrix is a federated chatsystem allowing even voice calls.

The fediverse would come by using one of those standarts more connected, and ppl could even chat with ppl not using mastodon.

Thoughts? Like it? Boost it...

Show threadHouse of Pears 🍐Jul 16, 2017
@paulfree14
It already is here on Mastodon.host
Show threadMike 🍻Jul 17, 2017
@paulfree14 #xmpp would be a great fit, I'm looking at my setup right now to try getting Mastodon and Prosody on a common password store. Then any JID like [email protected] instantly equates to fediverse ID that my users can just log right into if they want.
Show threadPaul Free (14 Ⓐ, ♥, europe)Jul 17, 2017
@paulfree14 @mike
...have you also looked into #matrix?
Show threadMike 🍻Jul 17, 2017
@paulfree14 @paulfree14 not really I have to admit, it always looked a bit redundant to me.
Show threadPaul Free (14 Ⓐ, ♥, europe)Jul 17, 2017

@paulfree14 @mike

read here: https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-difference-between-matrix-and-xmpp

Show threadMike 🍻Jul 17, 2017

@paulfree14 @paulfree14 Yeah, I've read that and I've seen the debates (they do tend to bring out the worst in people for sure). It does seem like each point comes with a solution though, and I don't see any problem Matrix solves for me that I'd want to deploy a whole new service for.

The two things #XMPP needs are better client software and a catchier name.

Show threadMuto 👁Jul 22, 2017
@mike @paulfree14 @paulfree14
the main reason for me is I have no friend I would use #Matrix with, if I had I would probably give it a try
also I bother #Riot tracking its users although it doesn't in F-Droid Version. at least it is or gets an independend Foundation now which was another point of criticism for me
Show threadPaul Free (14 Ⓐ, ♥, europe)Jul 22, 2017
@paulfree14 @mike @Muto
well you don't need to start with your friends to enter into matrix. It as federated open chat rooms. That what it makes interesting to me. For pure personal conversations matrix isn't needed.
Show threadjoemaroJul 16, 2017
@paulfree14 i guess it's always good to spread the word about all the good software there is. Did you use #matrix? i just read about it once quite a while back...
Show threadPaul Free (14 Ⓐ, ♥, europe)Jul 17, 2017
@paulfree14 @joemaro
yes using it beside many other ppl.
you should definatly give it a try.
there is even a mostodon channel on #matrix! :)
Show threadjoemaroJul 18, 2017
@paulfree14 i think i actually tried the weechat plugin, but it didn't work, and i didn't want another standalone client back then. Just saw now that there's a pidgin plugin, might as well try that :)
Show threadPaul Free (14 Ⓐ, ♥, europe)Jul 18, 2017
@paulfree14 @joemaro
you mean a plugin to have #matrix available within #mastodon.
or a just for youself?
I use riot for the last case
Show threadjoemaroJul 18, 2017
@paulfree14 Pidgin is a chat-client for many different networks. i use it mainly for xmpp/jabber ... so i'm looking for a way to use pidgin for connecting to matrix ... just can't remember my account things and can't find where to get a new one :P
Show threadjoemaroJul 18, 2017
@paulfree14 so for the moment i won't use #matrix, because the clients are too bloaty for me ... too many dependencies .... also the terminal client doesn't work... will maybe try the weechat plugin again in the future.
Show threadtuttle_(defunct)Jul 15, 2017
@bob I don't think federation and privacy mix well.
Show threadNobody [LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)]Jul 15, 2017
@tuttle @bob @gargron Federation and privacy _could_ work together. The problem with this and other #OStatus private messaging proposals (and the #ActivityPub proposal, from the little bit of reading I've done) is that privacy is an afterthought, cobbled onto something that was not designed with privacy in mind.

That said, I recently had to use Twitter DMs to convey a limited distribution message to someone on another instance that should have been possible to send from here. Some things don't need to be private forever, they just need to be reasonably sure that the intended recipient can read and act upon them before the contents become public. (That is about where Twitter / Facebook / $CENTRALIZED_SERVICE DMs are right now anyway. We all know that their admins and employees could be reading supposedly private messages anyway.)
Show threadNormandyJul 16, 2017
@lnxw48a1 @tuttle @Gargron @bob Yeah I do think there's a place for DMs but it shouldn't result in the contents of the notice becoming public on failure. The proposal does seem to be getting there, though I have yet to examine it in full detail.
Show threadDavidJul 24, 2017
@bob indeed, until we have something that actually provides real privacy, we just need to accept the limitations of the tools we have and recognise it's a problem that still needs to be solved