Mastodawn

Troed Sångberg

Did you know that Microsoft applied for a permit for a warehouse in southern Sweden - and once they had built the "warehouse" they declared they were going to host a datacenter there with diesel backup generators?

I mean, we hear this happening all the time and so let's hate on data centers, right?

The difference is that this is Sweden, and we don't accept that shit. They were not allowed to run their diesel generators, had to purchase battery power instead and in the end they closed the data center down since they couldn't win this fight.

That's how you deal with it.

(They are now using other datacenters in other locations in Sweden, fully compliant with the laws, with renewable energy and not using water for cooling as far as I can see)

@troed Any sources, like news articles or official documents?

Troed Sångberg 1d ago

@f15h Yes. The local paper Sydsvenskan were the main outlet reporting on it. This is but one article of many: https://www.sydsvenskan.se/staffanstorp/microsoft-aterkallar-ansokan-for-staffanstorp-letar-efter-ny-plats-for-datacenter/

Microsoft återkallar ansökan för Staffanstorp – letar efter ny plats för datacenter

Bolaget har lyssnat på lokalsamhället.

Sydsvenskan

Paavi (ei se paavi)22h ago

@troed @f15h It's still problematic though. Also there's limited amount of renewables unless you want to also get rid of the forests and fields. https://www.helsinki.fi/en/researchgroups/reimagining-public-values-in-algorithmic-futures/whats-new/dismantling-public-values-one-data-center-at-the-time (yes, this is from a Finnish university but the article is about Sweden, it's few years old but the premise is still there)

Dismantling public values, one data center at the time | Reimagining public values in algorithmic futures | University of Helsinki

In this blog post Julia Velkova discusses the problematics related to data centres from the Nordic perspective: Are the Nordic States too reliant on tech giants to in the critical communication infrastructures of the Welfare state?

University of Helsinki

@troed here in the US they buy the government first, and then the warehouse.

Nullstring 🏴‍☠️1d ago

@troed woah! you mean you win by fighting? i know this sounds like sarcasm but here in america this concept is genuinely foreign to us.

@0x00string
We won with bureaucracy.
They faught the law and the law won @troed

Nullstring 🏴‍☠️23h ago

@_nibbles @troed idk if its language barrier or otherwise but... like really you didnt get what i meant?

@0x00string
Iam saying that there was no fight (legal).

Nullstring 🏴‍☠️23h ago

@_nibbles @troed i am saying that you are misunderstanding what i mean by fight and if you truly believe there was none then you won nothing and should expect to enjoy the same kind of depraved mania we are currently mired in here.

you fought. stop pretending you didnt. if you hadnt, you would not have prevailed. people fought.

we have laws too and these villains are allowed to flaunt them by people who think themselves good but who are actually just lazy cowards.

you fought. you won. stop belittling it.

Albert Cardona 20h ago

@0x00string @_nibbles @troed

Outside of the US there are a number of countries where the law is followed and that’s that. No heroics necessary to uphold what was already agreed upon.

Nullstring 🏴‍☠️20h ago

@albertcardona @_nibbles @troed i would like to believe that but i am uncultured and so this crumbling state is the only one im really familiar with, and here, people do not follow the law and are not made to.

if your country, if the people like in mine would not enforce the law, would the people there follow it still?

its wild, in a time like this, for people to be sitting and arguing that this is literally all they are doing, that their perfect dreams are holding strong, while the wolves are already devouring people and looking for more.

its astounding to me how safe you seem to feel - like you imagine germany from the past is the threat and not the place im typing from.

imagining that no one else is doing anything to ward these things off because you yourself arent feels easily dismissed even without looking at your profile to discern where youre from and doing even a few minutes research.

i sure hope this all works out, but its already pretty locked in as not going to.

adritheonly 17h ago

@_nibbles @0x00string @troed
A picture of "The Ironbank" jumps unbidden into my mind.

GhostOnTheHalfShell 1d ago

In this latter day hell hole, I’d like to suggest most people would never want the data center even if it wasn’t destroying their energy and water supply.

But thank goodness you have a functioning government.

Kierkethumbs up convincingly 1d ago

@troed lucky it was microsoft and not elmo

Flash Mob Of One 1d ago

@troed Congrats.

Here, we elect anti-datacenter people and vote against them and they get built anyway.

@troed Bravo!

@troed @eco_amandine Note that data centers use water for cooling to reduce energy use. If they are not using water, then they are using more energy and therefore increasing greenhouse gas emissions. This is a zero sum game.

It does not matter if a data center is using "green" energy so long as the AI industry continues to consume more energy. Increased energy use delays the transition away from fossil fuels, keeping gas and coal plants active. https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2009/11/how-not-to-resolve-the-energy-crisis/

How (Not) To Resolve the Energy Crisis

Increasing the share of renewable energy will not make us any less dependent on fossil fuels as long as total energy consumption keeps rising.

LOW←TECH MAGAZINE

@troed @SimonCHulse This is what pisses me off - it *would* be possible to built a sustainably run, environmentally friendly data center. Sure it’d cost more to build but they’ve all got the money. They just choose not to.

ORangeR 19h ago

@SimonCHulse @troed 👍@donkey
So sometimes some of this is applied:
https://piaille.fr/@OrangeR/116811270033869444

ORangeR (@[email protected])

Proposal for a law applicable to the construction and operation of #dataCenters : 1.The site should not endanger any protected species nor biodiversity. 2.It shall be autonomous in energy, without connection to the electrical grid. 3.The energy used must be renewable, with no harmful emissions or waste: neither gaz, nor heat, nor materials. Sound level on site unchanged. 4.Water supply is authorized once, upon commissionning. No additional water supply or consumption is allowed. ./.

Piaille

@OrangeR @SimonCHulse @troed Perfect!👌

ORangeR 15h ago

@troed @donkey
🙏☺️
Wrote it down spontaneously to toot. Can improve 😌
@SimonCHulse

stannard 17h ago

@troed
I read that the production of PFAS is increasing to supply the data centre / AI demand.
If true we are stuffed.

The Raven & The Hawthorn 16h ago

@troed In post-capitalist US hellscape, data center sues YOU!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/data-center-vowed-avoid-colorado-143900694.html

Data center that vowed to avoid Colorado River water is now suing for 260 million gallons per year

The volume is about the same as the yearly water needs of roughly 7,300 Imperial County residents.

Yahoo News

SP⟁CED GO⟁T 15h ago

This is the difference between a country with a functioning government that implements appropriate regulation for the benefit of the people and a country with a non-functioning government that simply takes bribes from corporations to deregulate.