Mastodawn

@molly0xfff Our top priority in America should be election reform.

@DekOfTheYautja @molly0xfff
Our top priority in America should be ending capitalism and getting rid of the oligarchs.

@Quasit that's a downstream problem.

@DekOfTheYautja
Reformed elections aren't going to do anything to get us there.

The system is not reformable. Not on anything but an absolutely cosmetic level. Getting rid of the oligarchs and capitalism will take a complete revolution. And that means a general strike.

#GeneralStrike

@Quasit ...yeah? It absolutely will.

How? So far all I've seen is magical thinking which never works.

@Quasit You haven't seen anything because we don't have the election reform yet... The "how" is by electing representatives that represent the will of the people instead of the will of the politicians, which equates to the will of the corporations.

The oligarchs and the Party elders run the system. Have you noticed that so-called "reformist" candidates either lose, or immediately give up their principles upon gaining office?

The oligarchs own both parties, the mass media, and most of social media. And you believe that they are going to allow candidates who oppose their interests to win?

If Bernie couldn't win and sold us out instead, what makes you think that anyone else can win?

@Quasit You're right, oligarchs own both parties, which is where RCV comes in. Because in RCV there are no "parties". No "teams". No "tribes". It's just "may the best person win".

Bernie could not win because the Dems cheated him from the party nomination. Again, in RCV there are no parties, and Bernie does not need their blessing and does not need to be primaried.

But what makes you think that the oligarchs and party leaders who won't allow genuine reform or sincere progressives to run will allow ranked choice voting?

@Quasit What makes you think they would "allow" a revolution and general strike?

They wouldn't allow it. The difference is that reform happens within the system, and revolution/general strikes come from OUTSIDE the system.

The system is under the control of the oligarchs. The people are not. That's why the oligarchs fear us.

@Quasit Exactly. They wouldn't. We have to take it. By whatever means necessary. Inside, outside, who cares what the method is?

Quasit

They control inside. The DNC is a private corporation which has proclaimed proudly in court that they are not required to follow even their own rules, and that no one can make them. The court agreed.

So there's literally no way to force the DNC to accept something that they are not willing to accept. And the oligarchs are certainly not going to accept a challenge to their ownership of the DNC, nor the RNC.

By definition, outside is the only way to go. Even a brief general strike in Minnesota got action. A sustained one would bring them down.

@Quasit You say it's impossible and then simultaneously say that's exactly what you intend to do so, we're going around in circles here.

@DekOfTheYautja
You may be, but I'm not. The system is corrupt and rigged. You want to use the system to fundamentally reform the system, which has been tried many times and always failed.

I'm talking about working OUTSIDE the system to overthrow it. History shows us that that's possible. They've made general strikes illegal BECAUSE they work.

So we break the law, have a sustained general strike, and break the power of the oligarchs.

Or we can do it your way. Voting harder, keep donating to corrupt Democratic politicians who inevitably sell us out, and wonder why nothing ever seems to change.

That's what brought us fascism, and that's what brought us Trump. Not magic. The Democrats were a key part of that.

@Quasit I have no idea why you think that's "my way", I said absolutely nothing to that effect.

No, that's just the implication of everything you've said in this thread so far. So you AREN'T urging everyone to support Democratic candidates, then? If so, why not say so?