Molly Whitevery cool illustration of ranked choice voting and how it worked in Maine’s gubernatorial Democratic primary
via Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Maine/comments/1ua4e7n/sankey_diagram_of_the_democratic_gubernatorial/)
DekOfTheYautja@molly0xfff Our top priority in America should be election reform.
GhostOnTheHalfShell
AhimsaSo true!
Add ranked choice voting, get rid of gerrymandering, and stop all the other voter suppression tactics such as trying to manipulate or get rid of voting by mail.
I'm disabled (chronic illness) so I'd have a *really* hard time voting in person. Thankfully, Oregon automatically sends all registered voters a ballot via email. And I usually return the completed ballot at one of the many dropboxes.
Quasit@DekOfTheYautja @molly0xfff
Our top priority in America should be ending capitalism and getting rid of the oligarchs.
Our top priority in America should be ending capitalism and getting rid of the oligarchs.
@Quasit that's a downstream problem.
@DekOfTheYautja
Reformed elections aren't going to do anything to get us there.
The system is not reformable. Not on anything but an absolutely cosmetic level. Getting rid of the oligarchs and capitalism will take a complete revolution. And that means a general strike.
@Quasit ...yeah? It absolutely will.
How? So far all I've seen is magical thinking which never works.
@Quasit You haven't seen anything because we don't have the election reform yet... The "how" is by electing representatives that represent the will of the people instead of the will of the politicians, which equates to the will of the corporations.
The oligarchs and the Party elders run the system. Have you noticed that so-called "reformist" candidates either lose, or immediately give up their principles upon gaining office?
The oligarchs own both parties, the mass media, and most of social media. And you believe that they are going to allow candidates who oppose their interests to win?
If Bernie couldn't win and sold us out instead, what makes you think that anyone else can win?
@Quasit You're right, oligarchs own both parties, which is where RCV comes in. Because in RCV there are no "parties". No "teams". No "tribes". It's just "may the best person win".
Bernie could not win because the Dems cheated him from the party nomination. Again, in RCV there are no parties, and Bernie does not need their blessing and does not need to be primaried.
But what makes you think that the oligarchs and party leaders who won't allow genuine reform or sincere progressives to run will allow ranked choice voting?
@Quasit What makes you think they would "allow" a revolution and general strike?
They wouldn't allow it. The difference is that reform happens within the system, and revolution/general strikes come from OUTSIDE the system.
The system is under the control of the oligarchs. The people are not. That's why the oligarchs fear us.
@Quasit Exactly. They wouldn't. We have to take it. By whatever means necessary. Inside, outside, who cares what the method is?
They control inside. The DNC is a private corporation which has proclaimed proudly in court that they are not required to follow even their own rules, and that no one can make them. The court agreed.
So there's literally no way to force the DNC to accept something that they are not willing to accept. And the oligarchs are certainly not going to accept a challenge to their ownership of the DNC, nor the RNC.
By definition, outside is the only way to go. Even a brief general strike in Minnesota got action. A sustained one would bring them down.
@Quasit You say it's impossible and then simultaneously say that's exactly what you intend to do so, we're going around in circles here.
@DekOfTheYautja
You may be, but I'm not. The system is corrupt and rigged. You want to use the system to fundamentally reform the system, which has been tried many times and always failed.
I'm talking about working OUTSIDE the system to overthrow it. History shows us that that's possible. They've made general strikes illegal BECAUSE they work.
So we break the law, have a sustained general strike, and break the power of the oligarchs.
Or we can do it your way. Voting harder, keep donating to corrupt Democratic politicians who inevitably sell us out, and wonder why nothing ever seems to change.
That's what brought us fascism, and that's what brought us Trump. Not magic. The Democrats were a key part of that.
@Quasit I have no idea why you think that's "my way", I said absolutely nothing to that effect.
No, that's just the implication of everything you've said in this thread so far. So you AREN'T urging everyone to support Democratic candidates, then? If so, why not say so?
@Quasit LOL what do you mean? You expect me to say everything that I'm not saying?
Kookulainn@Quasit @DekOfTheYautja what you are missing is how ranked choice, and PR systems generally, incentivises more, smaller, political parties.
@Koochulainn @DekOfTheYautja
But you can't get ranked choice voting without the permission of the two parties at this point. They have locked out third parties quite effectively, and the DNC in particular is extremely aggressive in the courts to shut down any third-party challenge.
What's a PR system in this case? Public relations?
@Quasit @DekOfTheYautja and that is exactly why it needs to be changed. I do appreciate that changing your electoral systems (aren't they decided on a state by state basis?) is easier said than done though.
Proportional Representation system.
https://youtu.be/l8XOZJkozfI?is=H7yZyvaZNRUH5olz
The Voting System That's Actually Too Good for Politicians to Allow
Jacques Chester@Quasit @DekOfTheYautja righto, you continue hoping for revolution mate, we adults will fix it up while you’re wanking
@jacques @DekOfTheYautja
Because voting harder for liberal Democrats has been SO effective for the last 45 years. So who's living in a dream world?
Because voting harder for liberal Democrats has been SO effective for the last 45 years. So who's living in a dream world?
Dave Freedman@Freedman There are basically infinite alternatives.