dagPresumably Mastodon is not on the under-16 ban for if someone can work out how to set up a Mastodon account, they also would easily be able to circumvent any security settings.
Wombat
Maximummium Overacticans@davidallengreen If suddenly Masto had to implement id, 90 percent of the servers would shutter before complying.
Derick Rethans@aka_quant_noir @davidallengreen Or decide to ignore it.
James Frew@davidallengreen I'm interested for when the UK gov publishes an actual list of what is/isn't included. They've already noted WhatsApp and 'messaging services' wouldn't be — so how are they defining it.
Simon newslttrs.com@jimjamfroo_ @davidallengreen whatever the Home Secretary of the day feels like. Same as defining terrorists.
@spzb @davidallengreen I'm sure you're probably right. But it's interesting that they're already ruled out 'messaging apps' and I look forward to the comms around this going in circles trying to explain the difference between a messaging app and everything else. Spotify allows you to send messages and have a public profile; messaging or social media?
AnneH@jimjamfroo_ @davidallengreen I think @neil has a list. I'm sure he will be commenting in due course!
Neil Brown@annehargreaves @jimjamfroo_ @davidallengreen
Yes, at this point, there are just press releases, as far as I can tell.
One will need to see the draft legislation to get a proper view.
Wonderful401Whatsapp I guess is considered too similar to texting, although truthfully there's more bullying among youth through whatsapp (and texting) than there is through most of the stuff that they are banning.
@louisa555 @davidallengreen That probably is the rationale, but you can have group chats and join public channels which sounds a lot like SM, but then what really is social media? Would probably have been wise for gov to define that before throwing themselves into this.
BashStKid@davidallengreen More relevantly, still havent seen any definitions of what is and is not allowable. So many lawyers in govt, none of whom seem capable of drafting something that will survive a challenge.
Token Sane Person@BashStKid @davidallengreen I suspect lawyers who draft legislation are treated like programmers: "Write a law that bans [thing]. Don't tell me why you can't do it, just nerd harder."
Craig Stewart@davidallengreen I strongly suspect that mastodon isn't on the under 16 banned list because the British government doesn't understand what they claim to be banning and believe social media is just the big private platforms.
Raymond RussellRevenge of the Nerds.
The political class are so out of touch that they will never have heard or understand something most of the normies don't know about.
LillyLyle/Count Melancholia@davidallengreen Mastodon has previously let it be known that they are technically unable to have an age certification in the way BlueSky has, due to the way the software is set up.
If I find the reference, I'll send it along to you.
If I find the reference, I'll send it along to you.
@LillyHerself I know this to be the case, I was just making a joke.
@davidallengreen It was a good joke.
Taran Rampersad@davidallengreen a group of teenagers under 16 could set up their own mastodon server and NOT federate, just like anyone else.
Just them and their friends.
Julia Rez
Pete / Syllopsium@JuliaRez @knowprose @davidallengreen Are we talking technically or legally?
Technically, yes. Legally : no, you're still subject to the online safety act and probably the upcoming law too. I'm not sure even if teenagers had the ability to handle the OSA requirements, if they're even legally permitted to because they're not adults.
The only reason Mastodon has got away with it so far is because it's small, and no one has (yet) tried to enforce the law against an instance.
Says the person who is in Sweden, honest guv, cough.
I guess if a masto install is now 'apt install mastodon-server' then _maybe._
adamrice@syllopsium @JuliaRez @knowprose @davidallengreen There are Mastodon hosting services where you pay them money and get your own instance. Doesn’t even require a lot of technical expertise. Here’s one in France, which I assume is not bound by UK law. https://masto.host/
@JuliaRez @syllopsium @knowprose @davidallengreen I’m not in the UK, so forgive me if this doesn’t apply, but here, bank cards function as debit cards, and one can buy prepaid cards at a grocery store.
Buxton The Red (Matt)@adamrice In the UK, our regular bank cards are generally on the Visa or Mastercard networks. They can be used in *most* online shopping situations that ask for "a credit card".
Merchants (or maybe it's processing platforms) can determine if a given card is Debit or Credit - Steam uses this in the UK as their only form of age-validation for smut-games (must be a Credit card).
But for "get a domain" and "get a cheap VPS" transactions, I have used my regular MC-debit bank card without issue.
@syllopsium @JuliaRez @davidallengreen if it's just a group, it isn't necessarily social media.
An argument can be made that it's the same as email.
The real problem related to teenagers and social media are the lack of privacy, et al.
Are they really going to Napster sue kids for a private mastodon server? 🙃
And who would tell?
@JuliaRez @davidallengreen yup.
Set up a server at home, don't federate, invite friends. Keep it private.
Just takes a little imagination.
Been trying with the idea of of setting up one with pgp encryption. For giggles.
aqunt@knowprose @davidallengreen delta chat. It’s just email. They havent banned email have they?
#deltachat
#deltachat
Bern@knowprose @davidallengreen All the teens I know just set up group chats in WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger, or follow each other on Instagram.
Yeah, I have no idea if those outlets are *supposed* to be restricted by the ban here in Australia, but it's not like it's hard for teens to get around that, anyway.
@Bern @davidallengreen yeah. And meta still uses the data. 🙄
Kristian Haapa-ah0)))@knowprose @davidallengreen It feels like we're gonna be hitting BBS 2.0 sooner rather than later.
@eryops @davidallengreen irc also comes to mind.
HighlandLawyer
David S@knowprose @eryops @davidallengreen
It can be easily sniffed and monitored though?
Simon Richter@knowprose @cstross @davidallengreen at that age, we had our own Fido-compatible network (an "FTN" — Fido Tech Network) where we were copying homework and planning parties, using the phone line.only for a few seconds every hour.
The Tattooed Nonna 🧙♀️@davidallengreen I will just show @theropologist my (old) face 😁
Elias Thorne@davidallengreen I don't seem to see discord listed, or IRC so there will always be something. Can't see this going well when you teach kids how to bend the rules.
Boggin@stx @davidallengreen "All I learnt at school
Was how to bend not break the rules".
Madness, I tell you.
Was how to bend not break the rules".
Madness, I tell you.
Dave Robinson@davidallengreen
Perhaps the lack of an algorithmic feed is the difference? More likely just ignorance of its existence though. I'm surprised MySpace wasn't on the list.
Perhaps the lack of an algorithmic feed is the difference? More likely just ignorance of its existence though. I'm surprised MySpace wasn't on the list.
Richie McCoy aka Dr Deej@davidallengreen I would expect it would break it's federated nature if it were banned. And how would all the administrators/servers comply?
éric 🚲 🇪🇺 
@davidallengreen
I wonder whether this will lead to a resurgence of the original social media: newsgroups (nntp) and irc?
I wonder whether this will lead to a resurgence of the original social media: newsgroups (nntp) and irc?