Jessica, the Phoenix3d ago
jer

"Mozilla built an AI kill switch into Firefox after its users demanded one. Only 1% have used it. Another 3% turned off some AI features selectively. The rest left everything on."

Poppycock. The people who turned off all the AI had already turned off the telemetry that measures this.

Jun 13 at 12:29amWeb
Show threaddisregard Joe Groff5d ago
@nyquildotorg even then, considering most users of anything don’t bother changing defaults ever, both of those numbers are pretty huge
Show threadMarsh Ray5d ago
@joe @nyquildotorg I recall years ago a developer on Chrome giving either 0.01% or 0.001% as the fraction of users who change default settings.
Show threaddisregard Joe Groff4d ago
@marshray @nyquildotorg nevermind that Firefox has like 150 million users, so 3% is still the population of LA
Show threadHubert Figuière5d ago
@nyquildotorg when they pushed the Mr Robot crap I turned that shite off. Almost a decade now.
Show threadNullstring 🏴‍☠️5d ago
@nyquildotorg LOL those motherfuckers hahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahah who the fuck shares telemetry data with mozilla fucking mall kiosks?!
Show threadFrance Ineemio3d ago
@0x00string @nyquildotorg yup i'm a mall kisok
Show threadDon Marti1d ago

@ineemio @0x00string @nyquildotorg Mozilla is also somehow involved in a project at W3C to standardize a built-in advertising reporting system for browsers, which also (checks notes) defaults to on.

(this has not gotten much attention in the media so far—reporters who cover this stuff probably have carpal tunnel syndrome from Google "Privacy Sandbox" which tried something similar)

https://blog.zgp.org/the-advertising-cartel-coming-to-your-web-browser/ #privacy #mozilla #firefox #W3C

The advertising cartel coming to your web browser

Show threadTom Bortels5d ago

@nyquildotorg

Many of the people who wanted the AI kill switch got tired of waiting and switch to LibreWolf or other options.

I know, I'm one of them.

When firefox added the kill switch - well, that ship has sailed.

Show threadstaringatclouds1d ago

@tbortels @nyquildotorg Yup, I moved before the kill switch was announced

Too little, too late

Show threadDavid Bridger5d ago
@nyquildotorg Yeah, I threw Firefox in the sea right away, with a sigh of sadness about squandered everything but still ruthless.
Show threadRoger Ap Gwillian5d ago
@nyquildotorg
I not only had AI off from the start, but now use Vivaldi most of the time, specifically because FireFux added it.
Show threadSteffi5d ago
@nyquildotorg Thanks for this post. I didn't know that exists. Immediately enabled it after seeing this post.
Show threadtrusty falxter 🧠3d ago
@stefanie Yeah, it’s not like they really promoted it that much. They’d have to compare it to some other setting that everyone would actually want to turn on or off, but most people don’t because it’s buried deep in the menus.
@nyquildotorg
Show threadThijs_Goverde5d ago
@nyquildotorg
Also, I know for a fact that some Firefox users (at least one) are not following all developments of their browser of choice all that closely. Such people may have been unaware of the existence of this killswitch.
Until they saw this post, that is.
They have now probably blocked all AI features.
Show threadwolfie 🐺3d ago
@Thijs_Goverde @nyquildotorg when it was added they did put it prominently on the update tab, but I guess many people just immediately close that without reading
Show threadTak!5d ago
@nyquildotorg even if those numbers are accurate, 1% of firefox users is 2 million people
Firefox Public Data Report

Show threadMegalomaniac5d ago
@nyquildotorg yeah, I just don’t use vanilla FF anymore. Zen or Librewolf.
Show threadBen 🏳️‍⚧️🍉5d ago
@nyquildotorg plus that figure won't include people like me, who have moved to librewolf
Show threadSin Vega5d ago
@nyquildotorg I'm sure the people forcing the fabrication software into their browser would never fabricate statistics to prove it was a good and popular idea
Show threadThe Doctor1d ago
@sinvega @nyquildotorg That's a question few people ever ask about statistics.
Show threadSin Vega1d ago

@drwho every poll:

"How often do you eat apples?

* Every day, to make myself sexually potent
* Monthly, for profit
* Never"

Show threadTachibana Kanade5d ago
@nyquildotorg @megalomaniac Or had quit using Firefox for a fork that took their concerns seriously.
Show threadTomi the Slav and 1024 others4d ago

@nyquildotorg That's pretty under-belly / dark pattern. Nobody bothers or enjoys checking FF settings. Why didn't they put killswitch on the main FF page or visible menu?
Thanks for heads up, I immediately searched for it (Settings/AI Controls/Block)

(...and that is, children, a schoolbook example of biased data interpretation)

Show threadRay McCarthy3d ago

@po3mah @nyquildotorg
Search
about:config

ml.

Mathml is OK

Show threadAlda Vigdís3d ago
@po3mah @nyquildotorg Because they're too busy putting Nike ads and weather widgets there.
Show threadrugk2d ago
@alda
What are you talking about? The kill switch *is* in the main settings. https://cybersecuritynews.com/firefox-ai-kill-switch/
No about:config etc. needed.
@po3mah @nyquildotorg
Mozilla Unveils Kill Switch to Disable All Firefox AI features

Firefox 148 adds an AI kill switch that lets users disable all current and future AI features, improving privacy and security.

Cyber Security News
Show threadAlda Vigdís2d ago
@rugk untag me.
Show threadEllie4d ago
@nyquildotorg Mozilla built a telemetry kill switch into Firefox after its users demanded one. Only 0% have used it. The rest left everything on.
Show threadD21d ago
@ellie <golf clap> bravo. well-played.
Show threadOliver Blanthorn4d ago

@nyquildotorg a few years ago Mozilla accidentally (genuinely) was collecting telemetry about extensions from people who had opted out, either themselves or via their distros.

When they realised and fixed their bug, 50% of my users disappeared overnight

@po3mah

Show threadtobychev3d ago
@bovine3dom
What does your extension do? Or more precisely was your user base a representative sample of the Firefox users?
@nyquildotorg @po3mah
Show threadn1k03d ago

@nyquildotorg @dblanchet … or that means mozilla tracks these events bypassing user preferences wrt telemetry

I don't know what's worse, that or the blatant manipulation

(vivaldi rocks)

Show threadLux 3d ago
@nyquildotorg or they switched to better alternatives.
Show threadggdupont3d ago
@nyquildotorg
Also, they should try an opti-in version to check how many people "turn it on" ;-)
Show threadGabriele Svelto3d ago
@nyquildotorg it also doesn't answer a more important question, how many users do actually use the features? And how many once you take out translation? Translation was lumped with the LLM-based features while predating them and implemented using a completely different approach.
Show threadTorf und Schnee3d ago
@gabrielesvelto @nyquildotorg exactly, that was a really nasty pattern to make users keep AI switch on to be able to use translation.
Show threadwolfie 🐺3d ago
@torf @gabrielesvelto @nyquildotorg you can just turn the translation back on after kill switching the rest
Show threadJonathan Schofield3d ago

@gabrielesvelto @nyquildotorg

Or the people who switched to another fork

Show threadGabriele Svelto3d ago
@urlyman @nyquildotorg yep
Show threadMatt Marcha3d ago
@nyquildotorg I got tired to _demand_ this kind of features. When the kill switch finally arrived, I wasn't a Firefox user anymore.
Show threadNizar Kerkeni 🇹🇳 نزار القرقني3d ago
@mattmarcha @nyquildotorg Same here...
Show threadCzarBucks has moved instances!3d ago

@nyquildotorg

Or left FF already...

Show threadlilo3d ago
@nyquildotorg ...that and switched to another browser.
Show threadXerz 💗3d ago
@nyquildotorg ...in fairness, that's still a small minority of users
Show threadJohannes Odland3d ago
@nyquildotorg Had to double check, cause there’s no way I would allow telemetry.. and sure, both are turned off.
Show threadOrtwin Pinke3d ago

@nyquildotorg
or using another browser...

FOSS Browser | F-Droid – Freies und quelloffenes Android-App-Repository
https://f-droid.org/packages/de.baumann.browser/

FOSS Browser | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository

A fully free (as in freedom) open source browser for Android.

Show thread2something3d ago
@nyquildotorg

I know it isn't the same order of magnitude of evil, but this kind of reasoning always makes me think of the justification for psychiatric shadow prisons:

"We passed a law that if someone attempts suicide and fails, we subject them to coercive interrogation to make them say they changed their mind. We then found that almost everyone who attempts suicide and fails says they changed their mind!"
Show threadRay McCarthy3d ago

@nyquildotorg
Such arrogant nonsense.

On so many levels.

Show threadEatsbluecrayon3d ago
@nyquildotorg Where's this quote from? If it's something official from Mozilla I will finally move my ass and switch browsers. Because I turned off the stochastic parrot the second it was possible and I don't need some marketing clown honk at me how many imagined bozos loved it. To what end? To peer pressure me into liquifying my brain?
Fucknuts.
Show threadjer3d ago
@Eatsbluecrayon https://thenextweb.com/news/mozilla-firefox-ai-kill-switch-1-percent-smart-window-vpn
Firefox’s AI kill switch exists. Only 1% of users have flipped it.

Mozilla built an AI kill switch into Firefox after its users demanded one. Only 1% have used it. Another 3% turned off some AI features selectively. The rest left everything on. CEO Anthony Enzor-DeMeo says the point is not the percentage but the choice. “Our community was pretty vocal, especially during the CEO announcement, that […]

The Next Web
Show threadDance the Manta Ray3d ago

@nyquildotorg Yes.

Furthermore I'm blocking telemetry.mozilla.org in two other places before the browser traffic touches the ISP.

Interestingly(?) Firefox (esr) still tries to contact telemetry several times a day.

Show threadSteven Saus [he/him]3d ago

@nyquildotorg

This is an excellent point about inadvertent sample bias!

Show threadLynn McAlister UE  3d ago
@nyquildotorg Right, but that doesn't support the "everyone really wants this" narrative.
Show threadlinear cannon3d ago
@nyquildotorg my upstream OS vendor turns this telemetry off by default. firefox therefore says it is being "managed by my organization" in its settings page, because of the file they installed to override this.

nobody who runs any number of different Linux distributions is counted in these numbers. this includes all 3 members of my household, about 10 machines. it probably includes multiple of my coworkers.
Show threadDaniel ".koolfy" Faucon3d ago

@nyquildotorg I only learned now that it exists. I disabled some #firefox AI features back when I found them looking for them manually in anger, since them I missed the *highly relevant to me* news of this killswitch.

I enabled the AI killswitch.
Alongside a few other telemetry options I had no idea were in there and enabled somehow.

I'm currently looking into how much I can afford to donate to #Ladybird each month.

Show threadCrystal Huff (they/them)3d ago
For what it's worth: I don't use Firefox very often, but one of my school login sites has functioned best on Firefox for some reason. It hadn't occurred to me to hung down these settings on Firefox, but I've just done so and turned off the AI, thanks to this toot. So thank you, @nyquildotorg!
Show threadFredricT 😷💉🌻🌈3d ago
@nyquildotorg This nearly made me turn the telemetry back on 😅
Show threadFredricT 😷💉🌻🌈3d ago
@nyquildotorg Also: turn the kill switch off by default, and tell us how many people turn it back on...
(Also: AI turned on doesn't mean AI functions are used.)
Show threadCassandrich3d ago
@FredricT @nyquildotorg Better idea: let's make botnets of fake telemetry sources to pollute their data.
Show threadxssfox (crossy)3d ago
@nyquildotorg regardless 3% of users is a lot of users