officialFXDX 
Peterhad dinner last night with a couple of kids from Texas and their assessment is that the education system is completely fucked. it's all teachers using ChatGPT to make lessons that kids complete using ChatGPT and then teachers grade the work using ChatGPT. you couldn't undermine a society more effectively if you set out to do it on purpose.
i'm so angry at what the billionaires have done to us because of their psychotic greed and lust for power. the harm to the public is incalculable. Nuremberg trials for the AI financiers and then public executions.
7heo
Frank Bennett 🇯🇵@peter There do need to be consequences.
Kevin Neely 
@peter I wouldn't blame it on the use of LLMs. The billionaires' promotion of dis-investing in education -especially in states like Texas- goes back way before 2022.
Kim Spence-Jones 🇬🇧😷
Space Hobo@peter
No!
Death's too good for them.
Aria <3 
@peter No public executions.
Making a show of executing your enemies when you've already won is meaningless violence. Get above that, it's the 21st century in case you haven't noticed.
DavidI disagree.
Those public executions will show other billionaires, CEOS, entrepreneurs and smoke sellers what happens when you mess up with society.
Therefore they must be public and excruciatingly painful.
F4GRX Sébastien@ariarhythmic @peter yes. I'm the most horrible person you can imagine, and even more. Obviously.
@f4grx @peter Didn't we figure out murdering political opponents in death camps was bad in the 1940s? Did you forget?
Or is your point that instead of removing oppressive systems, you want to be placed in charge of them? Didn't we learn how that works out with the tyrannical regimes of the Soviet Union and now the PRC?
Or have you never bothered to?
Or is your point that instead of removing oppressive systems, you want to be placed in charge of them? Didn't we learn how that works out with the tyrannical regimes of the Soviet Union and now the PRC?
Or have you never bothered to?
rooney (not the famous one)@ariarhythmic @f4grx @peter
There was a notable difference between the death camps and the Nuremberg trials.
There was a notable difference between the death camps and the Nuremberg trials.
Azarilhⓥ@DBG3D @ariarhythmic @peter Definitely would not get out of hand against other people. Lmao
Tribalism will never solve our problems.
Tribalism will never solve our problems.
@Azarilh @ariarhythmic @peter
After Mussolini was hanged up, it changed Franco's mind and near his dead he decided to name King Juan Carlos to put Spain into democracy (kind of, the system we got was for the Borbons to keep stealing).
So, yes, it works. I'm sure there are many other examples.
HeliosPi@DBG3D
@Azarilh @ariarhythmic @peter
For an anarchist perspective against state terror and public executions i suggest the essay:
"Against the Logic of the Guillotine
Why the Paris Commune Burned the Guillotine—and We Should Too"
https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too
Also tiqqun's book The Imaginary Party theorizes the pitfalls of people's courts, if the goal is legit freedom and revolution.
"Foucault, too, made a decisive contribution to the theory of the Imaginary Party: his interviews dealing with the plebs. Foucault evokes the theme for the first time in a “Discussion with Maoists” on “popular justice” in 1972. Criticizing the Maoist practice of popular courts, he reminds us that all popular revolts since the Middles Ages have been anti-judicial, that the constitution of people’s courts during the French Revolution occurred at precisely the moment when the bourgeoisie regained control, and, finally, that the tribunal form, by reintroducing a neutral authority between the people and its enemies, reincorporated the principle of the state in the struggle against the state. “When we talk about courts we’re talking about a place where the struggle between contending forces is willy-nilly suspended.” According to Foucault, the function of justice following the Middles Ages was to separate the proletarianized plebs-the plebs integrated as a proletariat, included by way of their exclusion-from the non-proletarianized plebs, from the plebs proper. By isolating within the mass of the poor the “criminals,” the “violent,” the “insane,” the “vagrants,” the “perverted,” the “gangsters,” the “underworld,” THEY would not only remove what was for power the most dangerous segment of the population, that which was always ready for armed, Insurrectionary action, THEY would also enable themselves to turn the people’s most offensive elements against the people themselves. This would be the permanent threat of “either you go to prison or you join the army,” “either you go to prison or you leave for the colonies,” “either you go to prison or you join the police,” etc. All the effort of the workers’ movement to distinguish between honest, strike-ready workers from “agitators,” “rioters,” and other “uncontrollable elements” is an extension of this opposition between the plebs and the proletariat. The same logic is at work today when gangsters become security guards: in order to neutralize the Imaginary Party by playing one of its parts off the others."
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/tiqqun-this-is-not-a-program
In other words, destroy the apparatuses, not the people.
@HeliosPi @Azarilh @ariarhythmic @peter
I found the essay more palatable than the quotation of the book.
There is no longer bourgeoisie or middle class, only politicians and officials at the service of a few millionaires. So few that they are outnumbered by a ratio of 99 to 1.
It is naive to think that in the current political and war moment, it will be possible to destroy the apparatus and the institutions that support it, without first destroying its sources of financing. The billionaires.
@DBG3D @Azarilh @ariarhythmic @peter
Glad to read the feedback about the form of my communicating. The important part imho, is the bit about the French Revolution, how eventually the struggle was reincorporating "the principle of the state in the struggle against the state", by judicial executions.
Anyways, the term bourgeoisie still kinda mystifies me, and if that terminology isn't clarifying anymore then... ... So I imagine it meaning apparatusses like center-right Parties of electoral politics.
In the current moment its not possible really. This opens up another can of worms about ideas (and practices) of dual power and/or living outside the zones of control of a State. Such as among the hills, deep forests, mountains, and swamps of the world, until technology of all-terrain-vehicles and roads (such as in 1950s SE Asia), and like actually draining a swamp (such as in Iraq by Sudein). But we live in an era of a grand scope of control by the institutions of dominations reaching seemingly all of the Globe*, at a time when the backloop of the Anthropocene is occuring, during this ongoing great sixth extinction event on Earth that we're living through now.
* A global conception symbolized by maps and a defined finiteness on Earth, pushing the conceptual boundaries of infinity out into the universe, from what is sensually experienced by gazing out at the infinite horizons of the Oceans.
arceuthobium@DBG3D @ariarhythmic @peter no. A big part of the problem is they do not fear the consequences of treason. They are sure that the worst case scenario for them is their capital gains getting taxed the same as earnings.
@theothersimo @ariarhythmic @peter
Thats why we need politicians that will not bend to them, and will not tax them. Politicians and judges that will put them in jail.
Petra van Cronenburg
MissConstrueI applaud your ethical stance, but may I offer a counterpoint?
Yiorgos 
Alerta! Alerta!@peter We as a society have allowed them to do that to us!
we need to get away from the narative that someone else did this to us.
@peter It might be easy as that's not something we can do anything about.
But we can! Each and Every One of us!
But that is hard! And takes effort! And is uncomfortable!
But it is *our* society! Not theirs!
Quiou@heiglandreas @peter We as a society have allowed the whole system to exist. AI will just add new inequalities to that mess. Quality education will becoming again a thing only the rich can afford.
My Privacy DNS - Matrix@peter
Well, the Nürnberg Trials were largely for show, giving the public a sense of relief and a feeling that justice had been served after what they suffered in World War II.
Well, the Nürnberg Trials were largely for show, giving the public a sense of relief and a feeling that justice had been served after what they suffered in World War II.
GroßStadtPflanze 
@peter Jetzt müssen wir nur noch die Schüler*innen und die Lehrkräfte da raus kriegen und GPT mit sich selbst arbeiten lassen. Dann haben die Menschen wenigstens selbstbestimmte Freizeit.
@peter The reason this is happening is ChatGPT is a perfect fit to what the education systems has demanded all along, which is busywork for the sake of busywork, lengthy writings that hold no meaning, time-consuming assignments that serve no purpose.
LLMs are *great* for this! It's not that they've fundamentally messed up the system that was, it's that their presence is shining a spotlight on how shitty it's always been.
@ariarhythmic @peter Actually good point. Schools have to be made more fun too, and teach why learning things is important.
x0@Azarilh @ariarhythmic @peter I ran into a surprising manifestation of this when I was in high school in the 2010s, which I assume happened due to some shift in guidelines. Suddenly everything was about critical thinking! Critical thinking is a good skill yes. But nobody even bothered to explain what it was. How it works. How you go about training it. They just expected everyone to have it from the off. And while I may or may not have it, can you explain to me how the fuck you define it? I was a very confused autist.
CJ@ariarhythmic @peter I’m not an expert on our educational system as a whole, but my wife is a teacher, and this doesn't reflect her commitment to teaching at all. She puts a lot of work into her lesson plans, assignments and grading. Based on some of her student evaluations and comments on sites like Rate my Professor, it's clear that some students won't give her methods a chance and write her assignments off as pointless.
@cj @ariarhythmic i hate the practice of rating teachers, as if students are consumers to be served rather than people to be educated.
@Kaliah @ariarhythmic yes yes yes, don't agree with OP saying to go out and hang people though.
Wolf480pl@wolf480pl @peter Any reason I shouldn't block you?
@ariarhythmic
Sorry for the shallow response. It was a shortcut that I forgot I'm not supposed to use when talking with strangers
Clearly we have vastly different experience with school, probably because we went to school in different parts of the world
I'd be interested in discussing those differences, and what kinds of tasks do and don't make sense in the context of education
But if you don't want to, that's fine, I won't bother you again
If you want to block me, that's fine too
Jacob Ibáñez 🔒
@peter but they did do it on purpose
ghost_shit@peter Kid #1 reports the same from her abandoned writing & editing course. What the fuck, people?
Hugs4friends ♾🇺🇦 🇵🇸😷@peter Isn't it on purpose?
Leeloo
PoloniousmonkI hafta say--it was deliberately fucked a long time before that. Hell, I'd say forced schooling was deliberately fucked from the get-go. The medium is the message, it teaches punctuality and obedience. It teaches to never learn more than the bare minimum necessary to bullshit the rest, and never admit when you don't know something. Forced schooling was deliberately instituted to extend childhood, hence the age-segregation. What we consider an eighteen year old maturity level today would be a thirteen year old a hundred years ago. A lot of people never develop further, and who's easier to manipulate and control than a child? People like Dewey used to brag on that stuff. Forced schooling was implemented to destroy ethnic identities. Grandpa became a silly old guy who talks funny rather than a venerated source of cultural continuity. Forced schooling ain't a positive, but this is just the historical stuff. These days...
It was bad enough when I went through in the 80s and 90s, but after bush2 stole his election, it fell off a cliff. The very idea that phones are allowed in the classroom is absurd. They changed fucking math. I tried to help my gf's kid with her algebra homework but couldn't understand it. I can do calculus, and offered to teach her how to do algebra, but she preferred to jump through hoops to pass algebra class. And as far as I know, the children still have power over the teacher's salary, and even employment. That is an absurd power inversion. I was in a county college when I was in my mid 20's, taking classes with teenagers straight out of high school, and they were spoiled obnoxious. I saw them break a physics teacher. Nobody did the homework so homework review took the whole class so no new topics were ever introduced. Since even at the collegiate level, you're not allowed to fail a whole class despite the fact they all deserve it, after the mid term the prof gave up on teaching physics and just gave everyone a B.
LLMs simply formalized the hollowness of American forced schooling. It's great for producing amoral frat-boy salesman types and general infantry. Terrible for producing artists and scientists. And informed voters.
Education is a lifelong, self-directed process, and forced schooling exists to subvert that and replace it with a bare minimum of received wisdom.
Mattsdspatch@Uair @peter Forced schools were also established to indoctrinate children into christianity. But it is changing. And now bare minimum secular education became important. While i agree that it has many flaws, it doesn't mean we'd be better off without forced education. Because the alternative is utter ignorance. More educated people make better choices, you can tell by comparing countries with different education levels.
@Uair @peter Or how people that are more educated tend to have more political beliefs that are about equity. And while most of those polls are about university education, so not forced schools, in a way that is still de facto forced in wealthy countries. Plus students cheat with AI there too, it's no different. Because people feel forced to go to university to be able to get a good job.
Reality has a liberal bias.
A liberal is a conservative who's been mugged by reality.
In the US, the schooling system is designed to squash liberals and empower reactionary fabulists. I'm saying to fix the schools, not abandon them.
I'm not a "defund the police" guy either, despite being fully aware of how shitty they are. Law and order are necessary. Without it, power devolves to the biggest bastard with the most guns. I'm just saying there's a better way, and it's not like the better way is any kind of a secret. As a species, we know all the answers to create an educated, safe, equitable, sustainable society. It's just that things like forced schooling sabotage any ability to achieve that.
@Uair @peter My first semester teaching philosophy 101, I realized that 80% of the class was going to fail. And not because the material was difficult, but because they wouldn’t do the work. Granted, the philosophy department had a very high failure rate, but I went to the dean and was like “um?”, and he said “yep, teaching to the test students. Your job is to teach them how to think for themselves. Have fun with that.”
I did not last long in academia.