sam i am🪻(not green eggs and ham)
🔥 Mireille Sillander 🔥Cities must be primarily for biological life instead of machines
Robots can be gay deal with it@Mimesatwork Keep homeless off the benches, it's really easy to do you just house the homeless...
Orange Lizard Girlthing@MontgomeryGator @Mimesatwork Pretty sure that the amount of money burned on the Metaverse would've been enough to provide basic shelter for all the homeless people across the US yet here we are.
Klingon Sponge@Mimesatwork I live in an area with very elderly population and there are almost no benches.
Plenty of shit for cars though.😡
David Stark
zed@Mimesatwork yes but also “without fees” is a very American viewpoint.
Inga-Lina Pusurunkka@zed @Mimesatwork as if public toilets in eg. europe were generally free to use 🙄
("free to our customers" is not free. sure, public libraries usually have free toilets, but there are only so many public libraries)
@Stoori @Mimesatwork I point it out specifically because toilets are often not free, but .50€ is a negligible amount and if charging a minuscule amount is what enables plentifully available toilets the that is ok.
Henrik Pauli
Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK@phl @zed @Stoori @Mimesatwork my experience in UK is "free" toilets are only found in places where you are likely to have been driving (motorway service station), or in fast food places (if its busy no one bothers you if you aren't buying anything, provided you aren't behaving suspiciously)
Library does have free toilet but it requires a key which you have to ask the librarian for and is held on a keyfob made from 30 x 20 x 2 cm thick wooden block, and there's CCTV in the corridor (not in the actual loo) - this is to discourage folk using the place to inject class A drugs
@phl I never made the claim that paid toilets are the solution, only that being paid doesn’t inherently make it wrong. Also, Europe is extremely diverse and public toilets in France are usually free, just like the US.
@zed Didn't mean to imply you did... In any case, in Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium or Hungary you both pay for it and there's not terribly many public toilets. In HU even some malls have pay-for toilets which I find outrageous.
What a contrast to a place like Japan. (though there, the amount of toilets in a department store leaves a lot to be desired; but the general availability is pretty high... and always free)
aismallard@zed @Stoori @Mimesatwork Not arguing against you, just providing historical context: in the US there were a significant amount of pay toilets, and there was a push to get rid of them as exclusionary, but instead of being replaced with free toilets they were replaced with no toilets
Morgan ⚧️@zed @Stoori @Mimesatwork it's not okay if they *all* have fees, or if it's really hard to find one without. What is someone supposed to do if they don't even have 50 cents? I've had people ask me for a quarter before, and I've avoided being a part of public life myself over costs of about $5. 50 cents may be extremely accessible to you, or to most people even, but not everyone, and personally I'm most concerned about those with nowhere else to go, because if they can't afford any bathroom... 💩🛣️
Sette (they/them)@zed @Mimesatwork not necessarily, I visited several Chinese cities and they all had many free public toilets that were in pretty decent conditions.
Not all of them had accessible toilets though.
Not all of them had accessible toilets though.
@basil @Mimesatwork what are you saying “not necessarily” to ? Cause I never made a claim that paid toilets is better. Only that requiring toilets to be free as a part of the criteria for a “shittable” city was an American viewpoint.
@zed @Mimesatwork sorry, I could have phrased it better. I meant that not only Americans require toilets to be free for a city to be "shittable".
I imagine that many people used to seeing toilets as a public service would resist having to pay a fee.
And frankly speaking I have seen too many Europeans improvising in the street to say that the current fees are an effective option.
I imagine that many people used to seeing toilets as a public service would resist having to pay a fee.
And frankly speaking I have seen too many Europeans improvising in the street to say that the current fees are an effective option.
trainguyrom@zed @Mimesatwork if it requires a fee to enter the bathroom, it isn't accessible to everyone because some people might simply not have change on them, or might not have enough money at all to pay to go to the bathroom. As far as I'm concerned, access to bathroom facilities is a human right and should be available to all, regardless of your ability to pay.
Funnily enough this is an area that the United States actually does pretty well at. Almost every public space has a public restroom. I've gone to the bathroom at the freaking state capital multiple times for the simple reason that it was the nearest public building so I knew the restrooms would be available to me.
Pwassonchat the enby catboy@Mimesatwork shittability is accessibility
Millie@Mimesatwork been out in the forest for a couple of days now and I notice it's extremely liberating to be able to take bathroom breaks literally anywhere.
Jenny!@Mimesatwork the enshittification of cities will continue until morale improves
Chaotically Chloe 
@Mimesatwork unfortunately people would destroy public toilets like that here in the US. Not that I don't disagree with the idea, it's just some extra problem solving would be needed for that in the US.
butchrobot@Mimesatwork we need fuckable cities
Inga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸@butchrobot @Mimesatwork you might be joking but afaik this is one of the reasons for very low birth rate (below the replacement level) in many industrialized nations
@IngaLovinde @Mimesatwork because we cant fuck the cities??????? macro furs have something to say
@butchrobot @Mimesatwork because we can't fuck in cities!
Or more generally because there are basically no free third places where one can do the fucking, and a lot of people don't have a private first place in this economy.
Or more generally because there are basically no free third places where one can do the fucking, and a lot of people don't have a private first place in this economy.
Peeeeeaaaaaarl@IngaLovinde @butchrobot @Mimesatwork now I'm sure there are definitions here that are broader than my immediate understanding but my immediate reading of this was thinking typical third places eg. parks/malls/libraries just where you can fuck
And like . Based
And like . Based
@buncube @Mimesatwork @butchrobot that's the correct reading.
(Not necessarily in the libraries because that would disturb silence. But, like, there should be places for that.)
(Not necessarily in the libraries because that would disturb silence. But, like, there should be places for that.)
@IngaLovinde @Mimesatwork @butchrobot OKAY I LIKE YOU A LOT MORE NOW /silly
I was NOT expecting that to unironically read the point but you are so fucking real for that and I want so badly to give a detailed response to that but it has to wait until I get home in a few aaaaa
I was NOT expecting that to unironically read the point but you are so fucking real for that and I want so badly to give a detailed response to that but it has to wait until I get home in a few aaaaa
@IngaLovinde @Mimesatwork @butchrobot i GENUINELY NEVER THOUGHT anyone would even actually contemplate that without immediate dismissal
but it really does seem to make FAR TOO MUCH SENSE TO ME and most people will consider you literally genuinely insane for so much as considering it, let alone making it a public discussion
i dont see most other animal building rooms to hide where they fuck. in fact, they probably fuck LESS where they sleep than ANYWHERE ELSE. i'm no animal expert, so this isn't an "expert opinion" in any sense, but it's just a pattern i feel like i'm aware of. and why WOULD they? sex is a thing LITERALLY (almost) EVERYONE EVER will fucking do, and is something so biologically basic and fundamental that i can't fathom the shame people have surrounding it.
kink as a whole is an INCREDIBLY healthy way of engaging with your identity, or with trauma, or with a multitude of things, and it's almost consistently a universally life-changing experience to be able to express one's self openly in that way
it is INCREDIBLY common alone for people to want to see others and/or be seen by others, having sex, EVEN by those who have been forced into viewing sex with aggressive shame- so you then have to consider WHY said people are "shaming themselves" into repressing things for no reason, instead of creating spaces where that behaviour IS accepted
at which point you have to consider the part that sexual repression and frustration and isolation play in the current fascist-capitalist hellscape we live in and the greater concept of a self-sustaining patriarchy
but it really does seem to make FAR TOO MUCH SENSE TO ME and most people will consider you literally genuinely insane for so much as considering it, let alone making it a public discussion
i dont see most other animal building rooms to hide where they fuck. in fact, they probably fuck LESS where they sleep than ANYWHERE ELSE. i'm no animal expert, so this isn't an "expert opinion" in any sense, but it's just a pattern i feel like i'm aware of. and why WOULD they? sex is a thing LITERALLY (almost) EVERYONE EVER will fucking do, and is something so biologically basic and fundamental that i can't fathom the shame people have surrounding it.
kink as a whole is an INCREDIBLY healthy way of engaging with your identity, or with trauma, or with a multitude of things, and it's almost consistently a universally life-changing experience to be able to express one's self openly in that way
it is INCREDIBLY common alone for people to want to see others and/or be seen by others, having sex, EVEN by those who have been forced into viewing sex with aggressive shame- so you then have to consider WHY said people are "shaming themselves" into repressing things for no reason, instead of creating spaces where that behaviour IS accepted
at which point you have to consider the part that sexual repression and frustration and isolation play in the current fascist-capitalist hellscape we live in and the greater concept of a self-sustaining patriarchy
@IngaLovinde @Mimesatwork @butchrobot BASICALLY EXHIBITIONISM IS ANARCHIST PRAXIS AND I AM SCREAMING.
Jokes aside, a lot of people would deadass lynch you for it being a "threat to children" or intent to groom, but let me fucking ask them this;
IF THE PEOPLE THAT FUCKING GROOMED ME WHEN I WAS FIFTEEN COULD HAVE JUST GONE SOMEWHERE AND ACTUALLY FUCKED, WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE TO GROOM ME?
a majority of sexual abuse and harrassment on the internet comes as a result of deep and violent sexual repression, and i have personal experience with that fact, both as a victim, and as someone who hurt others myself as a result
the amount of times others, and in the end myself, talked about increasingly consequential and increasingly dangerous and reprehensible things being "hotter" because there was no healthier outlet, was, and continues to be disturbing. that's often WHY teenagers end up victimised anyway- because it's "wrong", because they're expected not to, because it gives the other party power to express themselves without contest, without responsibility
i was hurt, and hurt people, because my confusion and fear was channelled by the internet into that behavior, because i was repressed and confused and didn't understand the way i felt and didn't understand my own gender and didn't feel safe irl.
if i knew what being trans was because of real-world education, i and others would have been spared. if others didn't judge what being trans was because of real-world education, i and others would have been spared. IF THE OTHERS ONLINE HAD A PUBLIC SPACE TO JUST GO FUCK, I WOULD HAVE BEEN SPARED.
the reason i mention all of those things? well, because the throughline there is "things people will say you're a pedophile for endorsing, with zero nuance"
Jokes aside, a lot of people would deadass lynch you for it being a "threat to children" or intent to groom, but let me fucking ask them this;
IF THE PEOPLE THAT FUCKING GROOMED ME WHEN I WAS FIFTEEN COULD HAVE JUST GONE SOMEWHERE AND ACTUALLY FUCKED, WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE TO GROOM ME?
a majority of sexual abuse and harrassment on the internet comes as a result of deep and violent sexual repression, and i have personal experience with that fact, both as a victim, and as someone who hurt others myself as a result
the amount of times others, and in the end myself, talked about increasingly consequential and increasingly dangerous and reprehensible things being "hotter" because there was no healthier outlet, was, and continues to be disturbing. that's often WHY teenagers end up victimised anyway- because it's "wrong", because they're expected not to, because it gives the other party power to express themselves without contest, without responsibility
i was hurt, and hurt people, because my confusion and fear was channelled by the internet into that behavior, because i was repressed and confused and didn't understand the way i felt and didn't understand my own gender and didn't feel safe irl.
if i knew what being trans was because of real-world education, i and others would have been spared. if others didn't judge what being trans was because of real-world education, i and others would have been spared. IF THE OTHERS ONLINE HAD A PUBLIC SPACE TO JUST GO FUCK, I WOULD HAVE BEEN SPARED.
the reason i mention all of those things? well, because the throughline there is "things people will say you're a pedophile for endorsing, with zero nuance"
@buncube @Mimesatwork @butchrobot my (probably considered to be problematic; and I really hope that fragments of this post won't get quoted out of context; I didn't put hours of thought into each sentence here, so some of them might be badly worded and I guess misinterpreted in bad faith) opinion about CSA is that CSA is only such a big thing in our society because sex is such a big and separate and taboo thing in our society.
Sex work is work, and similarly, child sexual abuse could be said to be just a child abuse. It's only because sex is considered to be such a special thing, that child sexual abuse gets disproportionate amount of attention (with it being used to introduce all kinds of surveillance for everybody for example), while all the other child abuse gets almost no attention at all.
And yes, children are hugely traumatized by sexual abuse (compared to other forms of abuse), but how much of that difference is caused by our society telling them that sex is such a special thing that they should feel traumatized in a very special way by this specific form of abuse? (Both explicitly and implicitly, by subjecting victims of CSA to all the experiences they have to face after the fact of CSA).
And also, yes, perhaps if sex was considered to be just an activity (although more intimate than many other activities), then a lot less people would be willing to abuse children in this specific way, because it just would not be The Thing.
@IngaLovinde @buncube @Mimesatwork Okay, I'm gonna step in here:
Why does this particular conversation have to happen? Because CSA is a gateway to other forms of abuse, the highest forms of abuse. Sex is indeed extremely bonding and special; we have the neurochemistry to prove this, that stuff isn't just a social construct. In CSA, sex is used as coercion. Those without power are manipulated by sex in powerful ways.
Sex is a gateway to child marriage, abuse, control, making life-changing decisions that are legally binding before they reasonably should be. How many decisions do you regret that you made at 14? Well, imagine getting pregnant and married at 14. And what kind of fucking freak would marry a 14 year old?
So, no, there's a reason CSA gets the highest consideration for abuse imo. Now, to your point, should it be any more punishable than other forms of abuse? Depends, like it certainly should be more punishable than some forms of verbal abuse, I guess. I understand your point but there's 100% a reason. Neurochemistry is extremely powerful and sex is the most powerful neurochemical tool and activity.
Why does this particular conversation have to happen? Because CSA is a gateway to other forms of abuse, the highest forms of abuse. Sex is indeed extremely bonding and special; we have the neurochemistry to prove this, that stuff isn't just a social construct. In CSA, sex is used as coercion. Those without power are manipulated by sex in powerful ways.
Sex is a gateway to child marriage, abuse, control, making life-changing decisions that are legally binding before they reasonably should be. How many decisions do you regret that you made at 14? Well, imagine getting pregnant and married at 14. And what kind of fucking freak would marry a 14 year old?
So, no, there's a reason CSA gets the highest consideration for abuse imo. Now, to your point, should it be any more punishable than other forms of abuse? Depends, like it certainly should be more punishable than some forms of verbal abuse, I guess. I understand your point but there's 100% a reason. Neurochemistry is extremely powerful and sex is the most powerful neurochemical tool and activity.
@butchrobot @Mimesatwork @buncube
> How many decisions do you regret that you made at 14?
A lot in fact. Some of them I didn't know I made because society made them for me. Some of them, my parents did for me. A huge problem with a lot of these decisions is that they're not easily undone, in many cases because society deliberately makes them difficult to undo.
I can also say the same about decisions made at 16, or at 18, because I didn't just wake up one day on my birthday as a fully formed responsible person.
(None of them as bad as getting pregnant, but still.)
Also CW mentions grooming and a significant part of our society doesn't even really consider it to be abuse on a technicality, simply because no sexual act happens until technically the child reaches the age of consent. Although actually it is just as bad as other forms of CSA.
> Well, imagine getting pregnant and married at 14
If we're talking about some idealized world, well maybe then marriage should also not be what it is now (if at all), and maybe it should be unacceptable that people become pregnant at 14.
But weirdly enough, some parts of our society seem to be very interested in introducing global surveillance under the pretext of banning children from internet under the pretext of saving them from sexual abuse, and at the same time to be very interested in forcing the abused children to carry the pregnancy to term (as if this did not compound the abuse extremely, as if this did not constitute a separate form of abuse probably much worse than the rape itself).
But thank you for your perspective, I never heard this reasoning about CSA being different from other forms of abuse before. Usually it goes more like that: "OBVIOUSLY sex is an extremely special thing so OBVIOUSLY sex work is not a real work but something entirely different and OBVIOUSLY child sexual abuse is not a real abuse but something entirely different so OBVIOUSLY we need to surveil the entire population to ensure that nobody younger than 21 never hears anything related to sex in the spaces we control and that no adult ever pays transactionally to another adult for sex in the places we control, and if you disagree then OBVIOUSLY you're a pedophile and rapist and support human trafficking".
@buncube @Mimesatwork @butchrobot uhh that's not what I meant 😅 what I was talking about was more like, people who don't have private housing and don't have enough money on hotels etc need alternative free places to fuck (in privacy).
Kinda like we have with public toilets.
But also I don't disagree with what you're saying, with one caveat that of course this has to be consensual for everybody including those who see it (because unfortunately I've seen it on fedi more than once that people talk about having sex in public spaces, _flaunting_ that unwilling unexpecting bystanders witnessed it).
Incidentally I recently read a really good book, "The Thick and the Lean" by Chana Porter, where one of the main premises is "what if there was a society just like ours but where sex is considered to be as mundane as eating is in ours, and where eating is considered to be as taboo as sex in ours?"
And also to expand on this, I'm currently lucky to live in a country where unclothed bodies are accepted in dedicated spaces (including some beaches and some lawns), and I think this does wonders for body positivity, because instead of only seeing unhealthy photoshopped images in glossy magazines, people can see actual bodies the way they are in all their diversity.
Unfortunately even in this country the practice was slowly dying out in the last decades, I wish it expanded more instead.
And I wonder how life would be if there was a similar approach to sex.
Damon L. Wakes@Mimesatwork Ensittification.
Maria “indigoviolet” Ivy@Mimesatwork the concept of nonfree bathrooms is wild to me. roller coaster tycoon 2 ass city
MisterStormwing@Mimesatwork I want every block to have 2 genderless bathrooms, each of which have the capacity to close to enter cleaning mode, in which whatever happened in there is etch-a-sketched. I know that homeless folk will occasionally have an angry outburst, or...I don't know what compels this, but think painting with shit. We cannot pay a human cleaning person enough to deal with that. So this is where automation should actually happen. Bathroom autoclaves itself. Also they have bidets. Civilization!
ferricoxide@Mimesatwork
"Cities must be shitable" is of even greater import if you have IBS, Chron's, etc.
"Cities must be shitable" is of even greater import if you have IBS, Chron's, etc.
Arty@Mimesatwork Car brains hate this idea
Jeremy List@Mimesatwork Where I live in New Zealand the city council's strategy is something like this:
Step 1: Remove public toilets from the city centre so no-one goes there unless they have to.
Step 2: Petition the national government to create more reasons people might have to go to the city centre.
Step 1: Remove public toilets from the city centre so no-one goes there unless they have to.
Step 2: Petition the national government to create more reasons people might have to go to the city centre.
🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑@Mimesatwork
That sounds exactly unlike the thinking of a machine to me.
That sounds exactly unlike the thinking of a machine to me.
Antonio Patriarca@Mimesatwork Romans had free toilets (with running water) in their cities. And, apparently, they were paid by the rich even if they were not using them. They preferred to pay for their construction instead of stepping on other people shit. Modern rich people wouldn’t probably care if our streets were full of shit and the only way to clean it were to use some of their money.
Flux@Mimesatwork trains and trams are the exception to that rule obviously.