Danielle ForéAt the end of the day, AI is a technology for people who like the idea of owning other people. That’s what makes it inherently misogynistic, inherently racist, and inherently fascist. It is an accelerated extraction and exploitation device
Pēteris Krišjānis@danirabbit generative AI as represented by big companies 💯
Sharp Cheddar Goblin@peteriskrisjanis @danirabbit There is no other kind.
davidak@SharpCheddarGoblin that's not true. you can train your own model to disprove it. it's easier than ever with e.g. with https://github.com/karpathy/nanochat
the german non-profit association https://laion.ai created some crowd-sourced freely licensed datasets and trained models
the german government funded research and creation of an european LLM https://opengpt-x.de/en/models/teuken-7b/
but far away from commercial scale
and still uses copyrighted texts from the internet
Cairo Braga@peteriskrisjanis @danirabbit derivative* LLMs*
Knut 🏳️🌈 🇳🇴🧸@danirabbit That is a common theme with this new MAGA crowd. "owning" people. I'm a foul mouthed grumpy motherfucker who is very much not a snowflake, and can be A THOUSAND times more offensive than your standard MAGAtwat, and I was being ass on Facebook, and some dude was offended...simply because I was a "libtard" who could not be owned and fights back. And this concept of fighting back confounds them. And these people are alway Southern and relish the idea of slavery. They have to own someone
Token Sane Person@danirabbit Rather like this Soviet cartoon about the supposed evils of cybernetics.
Сейд ✅
Em 
@danirabbit that becomes very obvious when people on youtube explain the use of AI Agents like Clawdbot as an employee you can command around
Matt Godden@danirabbit The Venn diagram of people who like to use AI, and people who would like to possess a Human Slave, is a single circle.
Timothy Roes@danirabbit You mean because it steals from writers, artists,.. etc? Or for some other reason?
Magnus Idode@danirabbit
I understand where you’re coming from, especially with concerns about bias and misuse. It’s definitely something people should be thinking critically about.
I understand where you’re coming from, especially with concerns about bias and misuse. It’s definitely something people should be thinking critically about.
Shiv 🐍@danirabbit AI is just another tool like books/ internet/ search engines, by itself it is not bad, depends on the people who use it.
Marianne@hufflepuffWizard @danirabbit theft is bad actually
@noodlemaz @danirabbit all technologies we have invented to share knowledge are some kind of theft. Whole internet also was built based on ideas and knowledge stolen from somewhere else. We just need to de-centralise LLMs and make them open source. No single company or country should control it like the internet, it is a very important technology for humans now.
Jaicup@hufflepuffWizard @noodlemaz @danirabbit I disagree. While you can use information sharing tech to steal the hyperlink was set up for attribution. It's what makes Wikipedia so valuable, you make a claim and you need to provide a citation.
Scientific LLMs, ones looking through astronomical data or folding proteins, don't need to steal at all.
Scientific LLMs, ones looking through astronomical data or folding proteins, don't need to steal at all.
Magnus Ahltorp@hufflepuffWizard @noodlemaz @danirabbit How come some people are ”allowed” to do this for huge personal gain and some people are killed or imprisoned after doing it for no or minimal personal gain?
I might have answered my own question.
yoasif@hufflepuffWizard @noodlemaz @danirabbit Important technology is based on theft?
Why should people make things if they are just working for some decentralized borg stealing their works?
@yoasif @noodlemaz @danirabbit we should find ways to correctly compensate people on whose works LLMs are getting trained, but just giving up on AI and completely ban it just because we have not yet found ethical ways to build it is not the solution. AI can increase our productivity 100X and make us do things which were not possible earlier, ultimately helping everyone.
@noodlemaz @yoasif @danirabbit stats pulled from my own experience working in tech. Things which used to take 10 hours by scanning documentation and understanding how to do now takes only few minutes.
@hufflepuffWizard @noodlemaz @danirabbit So you compressed 10 hours of understanding into minutes and you think nothing was lost?
That is hilarious.
@yoasif @noodlemaz @danirabbit 10 hours of learning and memorising the syntax of a language which i don’t need to memorise in the first place. I would rather spend time solving actual problems rather than learning how to write regular expressions to match a string format.
@hufflepuffWizard @noodlemaz @danirabbit You haven't learned it, though. You substituted learning for a plausible result.
@yoasif @noodlemaz @danirabbit that’s the point, I don’t want to learn it, like I don’t want to learn how computers were programmed using punching cards 50 years back. I want to make human-machine interaction as natural as possible, you can’t stop this advancement to AI so we should find ways to make it better and ethical. We are not at that point yet but when wo do reach there, only ideas in the human minds will matter, not the execution.
@hufflepuffWizard @noodlemaz @danirabbit Not the ideas, the output, since you are compressing knowledge into the resulting outputs.
That is essentially a theft of labor, so I don't know that there is an ethical way to do it.
@hufflepuffWizard @noodlemaz @danirabbit Just think about it this way: you don't want to learn regular expressions, but you want the magic computer to do them for you. Great. Instead of someone building a NLP processor to convert your commands to an output, the LLM companies have stolen people's knowledge and actual work to generate outputs that resemble a plausible output.
@hufflepuffWizard @noodlemaz @danirabbit Why should other people learn and create those expressions for you for free so that you don't have to learn? Why do we presuppose that we need the outputs when we haven't figured out how to pay for the labor?
What entitles you and other LLM users to works that you yourself clearly don't want to learn how to create?
@yoasif @noodlemaz @danirabbit we can’t hard-code all the logic in this world into a computer, at some point computers would need to learn themselves like how humans do. Since computers need to learn it at a very large scale, from where will they learn it? Only humans and their work is there to teach them and like i said humans should be correctly compensated for their work on which AI is getting trained. This training will keep going forever, if humans keep creating
@hufflepuffWizard @noodlemaz @danirabbit But the computer isn't learning, it is compressing outputs.
You are advocating for thinking machines, but what we have are plagiarizing machines.
It would be one thing if you were telling us that the machine is reading the manual and learning how to write regular expressions. That isn't what is happening.
Humans are learning regexes, and then the computer copies the resulting regexes output from human knowledge.
@hufflepuffWizard @noodlemaz @danirabbit You are proposing that we simply steal those outputs instead of teaching the computer.
Even if you aren't, that is what is happening, and you are hand-waving the fact that the outputs are simply stolen -- "the outputs are good and we need to have them!" is what you are saying.
Why would people want to learn regular expressions and produce the outputs when YOU are unwilling to?
What gives YOU the right to their labor?
@yoasif @noodlemaz @danirabbit you are right, current AI systems are not learning anything, if I want to move to a system where we don’t need to use RegEx at all, current LLMs are not doing that. At most they can understand me and convert it into a regex internally based on how other humans have done till now and run it. Maybe we need to start building new AI agents which are actually able to think and understand in pure machine language instead of human language.
@yoasif @noodlemaz @danirabbit i just realised LLMs are the dream technology for communists 😂 if i know python and someone else knows java, now we both know both the languages. Nothing was stolen from anyone if they got something else in return ( both got to use one extra language albeit without understanding it) NOTE: this argument has many flaws, please don’t take it seriously
None Hitwonder@hufflepuffWizard @noodlemaz @yoasif @danirabbit
Exactly: you just described your own ass.
"It benefits me personally, so it's good for everyone."
De_Minimis@danirabbit Watching all these AI takes is like watching the opinions from the infosec community with the Snowden revelations.
Queue Benny Hill theme.
Driving a Volkswagen makes you a Nazi because ... Hitler.
Theo@danirabbit My anecdotal experience from colleagues matches this. Those that are most excited about AI are those that like directing people and have aspirations for managerial positions.
PalmAndNeedle@danirabbit wow there are so many trolls and asshats to block in this thread 
my condolences
McOlivierI absolutely love AI and find it a great instrument. I own nobody and take no interest to even influence anybody. These statements feels irrational to me.
@LionelMcOlivier It's the fascism and anti-human philosophies behind gen AI you love, isn't it? Be honest.
Felipe 
@danirabbit only if you are northamerican
@felipeB @danirabbit ah yes, because we are famously the only civilization on Earth whose owning class is constantly trying to enslave its workers.
ZackI've always wondered which slavery AI avoids.
MattyWS@danirabbit I cannot disagree more.
If that's where someones mind goes when they collaborate AI while thinking of them as if they were a person then I feel sorry for that someone...
But regardless, AI isn't people. You can't enslave an AI any more or less than you could enslave a lamp and treating AI like the tool that it is does not make you sexist, facist or misogynistic.
I'd go as far as to say you're downplaying actual horrible people by comparing things like facism to using an AI.
Jay@mattyws @danirabbit LLMs aren’t people, but those who made the art that companies stole and aim to profit from are.
LLMs aren’t people, but the communities whose water sources are being diverted to supply data centers are full of people.
LLMs aren’t people, but those workers fired while bosses eat their salaries and call it progress are people.
LLMs are tools that are designed to extract resources from people hidden from their users. Using them is not an amoral choice.
@WhiteCatTamer @danirabbit I wasn't saying anything to the contrary
@mattyws @danirabbit If you accept that the point of LLMs - not the hypothetically perfect FOSSified AI that someone’s brother is running in his garage using solar energy and training solely on works in the public domain, the kind that is being thrust into every sphere of life by companies worth hundreds of billions of dollars - is to extract talent and wealth from the masses by sheer force of economic momentum, then you would not call LLMs “just a tool”, which is contrary.
ennenine@danirabbit I had not thought of this, but it very much describes my encounters with AI boosters. I'm sure those people hate the imagery a clear mirror provides but THANK YOU for sharing this.
(I'm also reminded of some human nature illustrated in Westworld).
Three plus or minus five@danirabbit
Ditto humanoid robots.
Ditto humanoid robots.
arceuthobium@ThreeSigma @danirabbit that makes no sense. Robots are made of aluminum. LLMs are made of people.
@danirabbit @theothersimo Wait, I’m confused. What’s Soylent Green then?
Ramiro Carbajal@[email protected] IA es lo de hoy el presente y futuro esperemos que no en un futuro no legano no se rrevelen contra la humanidad
muddle@danirabbit I made a similar point recently, pointing out that apologising for AI is like apologising for slavery. In retrospect (and I apologised for it) I shouldn't have made the point where/when I did. I still stand up for the basic premise, though.
Jacob Ibáñez 🔒
@danirabbit yup, basically a white cishet entitled man as a service
Chris [list of emoji]The term "slavery LARPing" is not mine but I love it.