Kai
Human Brain EnthusiastCompanies should be required by law to completely open devices when they end support for them
If they don’t, the penalty should be that the CEO has to eat the bricked devices
Erik@thomasfuchs all of them.
mce@thomasfuchs love it.
More practically - if it’s end-of-life’d and isn’t opened then at the very least those products should be recalled and/reimbursed as breach of [implied] contract.
thriftwicker@thomasfuchs Billionaires. Nothing but greedy wasteful swine.
europlus 
@thomasfuchs I think this is an acceptable path forward.
dnparadice@thomasfuchs Yes this is great and if they don't do it, in the future you can simply not give your money to billionaire a holes and their shitty companies with shitty policies in the first place. Try a free open source alternative and forego watching your gadgets turn into e waste.
Eatsbluecrayon@dnparadice @thomasfuchs I have been trying to 100 percent avoid Amazon, but with a lot of places to buy eBooks from, it's more walled gardens. Kobo requires their own hardware or an Adobe ID. The books I want to buy are rarely available at other sources. I have tried so much, but everything is so complicated and time consuming and in the end I'm not owning my books.
I am back to sailing the high seas and instead of paying publishers I'm donating to the authors directly. If they offer that.
I am back to sailing the high seas and instead of paying publishers I'm donating to the authors directly. If they offer that.
muninnhuginn@Eatsbluecrayon Didn't know about the Kobo limitations (Adobe ID, indeed!). I'll have to look further afield.
Anne@Eatsbluecrayon @dnparadice @thomasfuchs they do? I have a kobo account and can read on my phone with the app - I don’t have to have an ereader (but I do).
I’m unaware of the need for the Adobe ID?
I’m unaware of the need for the Adobe ID?
@annecavicchi @dnparadice @thomasfuchs I don't have a Kobo reader and as I tried downloading my bought book it only gave me a tiny file. The Kobo website told me that I need an Adobe ID.
I found plug-in solutions to get Kobo files to work on Calibre, but I am not computer savvy enough to get it to work.
I found plug-in solutions to get Kobo files to work on Calibre, but I am not computer savvy enough to get it to work.
Alyn@annecavicchi
I think the Adobe ID is required if you want to read DRM'd books on a computer because it uses Adobe Editions. It's a necessary process to remove that DRM, I understand.
@Eatsbluecrayon @dnparadice @thomasfuchs
I think the Adobe ID is required if you want to read DRM'd books on a computer because it uses Adobe Editions. It's a necessary process to remove that DRM, I understand.
@Eatsbluecrayon @dnparadice @thomasfuchs
@alyn @annecavicchi @dnparadice @thomasfuchs Yes. I want to buy books, store them on my computer and read them on my different devices. And Kobo doesn't let me download epub/mobi/whatever files, if I don't have an Adobe ID.
If I bought a file, I should be able to download it without any further hurdles.
If I bought a file, I should be able to download it without any further hurdles.
@Eatsbluecrayon @annecavicchi @dnparadice @thomasfuchs
Kobo does allow that IF (and only if) the publisher decides to make the book available without DRM. It's not Kobo who has chosen DRM, but they have supplied the means I suppose.
Source of knowledge: One of my wife's books that got indie published is available on Kobo without DRM - you buy it and download it, you get an ePub.
@alyn @annecavicchi @dnparadice @thomasfuchs Thank you for that additional information!
I fear most books will have DRM at the moment.
I fear most books will have DRM at the moment.
Ross of Ottawa@Eatsbluecrayon if you follow the online recipes for removing DRM with Calibre, you can get around the Adobe process pretty well. I think they even have a method with a dummy Adobe ID and you can avoid any Adobe software usage all together.
I make good use of my Kobo devices with Calibre software and the @gutenberg_org titles when I'm not using it with library-sourced epubs.
@ottaross
Maybe you do, but in several jurisdictions that's illegal, and I don't publicly post about personally doing illegal things.
I mean, I use my new XTEINK X4 to read the many epubs that live on my Calibre-Web server. How they arrived there is my business, but I survive by people buying creative output, so they're paid for!
@Eatsbluecrayon is specifically looking for a method that involves no extra steps though, so lobbying publishers to remove DRM is the only legitimate way forward.
@Eatsbluecrayon @thomasfuchs well if I'm going to live in a walled garden I would rather it not be owned by a billionaire. I do like your other approach 🦜
Justin Fitzsimmons@thomasfuchs I agree with you completely. However, also in this case:
🏴☠️ "Oh, no! Anyway..."
kitteh 
if buying isn't owning… 
decapitae@thomasfuchs Maybe, end support for amazon?
Roger Ap GwillianEat a brick of something at least.
In an unrelated fact, did you know that wombats poo cubes? Huh, how about that?
In an unrelated fact, did you know that wombats poo cubes? Huh, how about that?
magnetichuman@thomasfuchs Tech companies "Say hello to our new CEO, Terry the Industrial Waste Mulcher!"
Brad Macpherson@magnetichuman @thomasfuchs We'll let 'em use tomato sauce, we aren't monsters 😄
@brad @thomasfuchs employees say Terry is the best CEO they can remember
Olivier@brad I would even let them blend it first.
Ember@thomasfuchs don't buy stuff that's locked into an ecosystem. there are great ebook readers that aren't kindles. you can for example modify the ones from Kobo to sync with a calibre-web server by editing a freely acessible config file (or just put your epubs on it directly, which is almost a bit too trivial).
Unlogic@thomasfuchs all that will do is make them create edible devices
Wilfried KlaebeThat would at least make the e-waste be compostable.
Nine Stones Close@thomasfuchs everyone should ditch kindle after this and move to Kobo or some other option.
Julie Howlin@thomasfuchs Not only are they greedy b****s forcing people to buy stuff they wouldn't otherwise need but also abject cowards since the news was broken to customers, as always, with a no reply e-mail. They are scared of people telling them what they think. I dread no reply emails because they are mostly telling me I'm being forced to do something onerous/massively inconvenient or something is being taken away from me.
Blyatskrieg@thomasfuchs typical EOL stuff. Download your library on the device and you can still use it. That's not a surprising thing a user of that service should complain about.
foxontherun@thomasfuchs I already changed.
BitHive 
@thomasfuchs sadly didn't made it completely into the CRA but EU is on the right track there
Mijndert@thomasfuchs same for Roomba… sigh.
Karl@mijndert @thomasfuchs And this is why I bought a roomba that isn't connected. It doesn't care about servers shutting down because it doesn't know about the internet.
Old tech is sadly sometimes more reliable.
@karl @thomasfuchs which one do you have if I may ask?
@mijndert @thomasfuchs 782e, it is quite an old model.
@karl @thomasfuchs Interesting! I guess my Roomba i7's are working still, and I hope they will for a while. Otherwise I hope they will either open up the API for these devices (not holding my breathe) or we find a way to reverse engineer. Don't want to throw away perfectly usable hardware obviously.
TrimTab 🇺🇦@thomasfuchs
A helpful reminder that digital goods don't "exist". Access is only at the benevolent grace of EvilCorp ass-hats, non perpetual untouchable for your children and friends.
Give real books a try. They're easy on the eyes and never become e-waste.
marmarta@TrimTab @thomasfuchs that's easy to say if your eyesight is good. But frankly, the ability to make letters on my e-reader bigger has been a real lifesaver for me - there are many books, especially reference books, that in print for are just nor really readable for me without literal headaches.
@TrimTab @thomasfuchs also DRM-free ebooks definitely exist? I bought a ton of those over the years and I feel pretty good about it. Yes, ebooks from amazon are shit due to DRM, but in many other ecosystems (like for example almost all online bookstores in my home country) you can just buy a DRM-free file.
C. R. Collins 🌳 🐸They exist if you buy direct from the author's site. 😄 Plenty of us indies offer that these days. But, no, you can't get trad books that way.
Real books are great too, though I personally lack the space for them.
Aaron O@thomasfuchs I can tell you what I won't be doing, and that is buying a replacement. Like my nest thermostat, I'll be replacing it with a device off their network.
Less reason to have Amazon devices in my house.
caro silva rode@m750 @thomasfuchs i think you can still email ebooks to your kindle after this. you just have to download or buy them elsewhere
Miha Markič@thomasfuchs Also EOL plan - what exactly happens to the obsolete device (recycling etc.). This would be valid for all products, not just devices.
Kevin Karhan@mihamarkic @thomasfuchs There's no legitimate reason to #EoL almost all devices…
- We don't EoL pacemakers either!
Kevin Karhan (@[email protected])
@[email protected] +9001% Same goes for any #copyright|ed material: If the IP holder refuses to #license it anew all #copyrights should be null and void and the #SourceCode be forcibly published under #0BSD!
@kkarhan @thomasfuchs Not forcibly, but eventually every device meets its end.
@mihamarkic @thomasfuchs yes and no.
- Yes as in there are things that will inevitably die over use and time (like #RAM, #SSD|s, #HDD|s, Electrolytic Capacitors, Batteries, …) but there are standardized form factors for these (or in the case of Capacitors: Solid Caps!) so they can be replaced and made #repairable…
- No as in stuff like #Nissan's #Cars and #Amazon's #Kindle devices are artificial " #ReducedLifecycle " have no legitimate reason to get bricked remotely!
Lyubomir Ganev 
@thomasfuchs it would suffice if the law doesn't punish hacking or reverse engineering them. Too many countries have followed the US laws that basically result in "you don't own what you bought". If those disappear, people will find ways to continue using those products.
Peter Koopman 🦣I think he should insert them as suppositories.
@thomasfuchs +9001%
Same goes for any #copyright|ed material: If the IP holder refuses to #license it anew all #copyrights should be null and void and the #SourceCode be forcibly published under #0BSD!
mmu_man@thomasfuchs and all schematics and documents should be given to states in case the company doesn't survive.
The Animal and the Machine@thomasfuchs @Gargron
Yes, with these tweaks:
1) The law should say they are automatically open on lack of support.
2) Details on opening devices is kept as a wind down plan.
This covers collapsing companies and closing legal entities as well as lazy ones moving on.
@thomasfuchs it doesn't seem like this will prevent people from emailing books (bought or downloaded elsewhere) to their kindles, no? it's a pretty simple operation and if anyone (like me) is still holding on to a 2008 kindle it's worth it to learn it :)
@thomasfuchs idk what the new ones are like, but mine is old enough that i can plug it into my computer and drag books to it lol
Simon B@budin @thomasfuchs it's unclear how usable kindles that have been reset/deregistered for re-sale if you cannot register them any more. Can these be used with calibre/sideload if reset after this date?
Also, it means that people like me with multiple kindles cannot sync books and reading position across such devices