# WireGuard VPN developer can't ship software updates after Microsoft locks account
I should be surprised if Windows will ever be suitable outside niche hobbyist communities with this kind of unreliable behaviour.
Real users need consistency and stability.
@neil I would say that there is a certain amount of #AppleEnvy at #Microsoft and #Google right now.
A #WalledGarden allows higher #Rent and cheapens compliance with legislation that attempts to restrict what users can do.
Open source - and thus backdoor-free - VPNs and e2ee are probably being targeted as preemptive obedience to future laws.
@tomstoneham @neil to be fair it's quite easy for people to leave windows and switch to linux.
A lot of gaming is already happening on linux and I am astonished when like >60 people working in non-tech jobs are talking about linux distributions
> it's quite easy for people to leave windows and switch to linux.
For *some* people, sure.
For a lot of people, probably not, sadly.
@tomstoneham @neil thats low status tech
high status tech is using a stickered ThinkPad with the original IBM keyboard
we might work in different industries
@tomstoneham @neil personally I don't care if you use a MacBook or a sleek Dell or whatever
I wouln't even think about status. That's completely normal stuff.
But having a club mate, strauss pants, gayish piercings and running arch linux on an X220 now that is my in-group that I would call high status.
@tomstoneham @neil you can't fathom the SHAME oozing out of me for having to work with a high end 2800 € apple device at work
when it got delivered I put that box as far away as possible and when I am done with what I need it for I shall never need to put it in my physically vincity again
I noticed almost a sort of performance of "I can't smile while opening this apple box lest people might think I'm scum"
Just for your "high status" consideration
@neil @saxnot @tomstoneham 1/2 That is the point to repair cafes that offer installs of Linux for those with modern computers that cannot run Windows 11.
Most people have limited needs from a computer and setting up a Linux desktop say XFCE in such a way that it mimics older versions of Windows allows people to transition easily.
I moved my remaining elderly parent over to Linux on their macbook ten years ago. With XFCE and a MacOSX theme and the panel at the top the transition was painfree.
@neil @saxnot @tomstoneham 2/2 They had been using non-Mac browsers for a while and the SeaMonkey email client was close enough in appearance and function to replace Apple Mail without any issues.
They could not have installed Linux and the customisations themselves but they were fine using what was installed for them and adapted very quickly.
@neil
This is an 'argument' I always refuse to accept.
It assumes that Windows and Mac users are proficient at using their respective operating systems to the point that they 1) can install and configure it independently, and 2) are able to troubleshoot and solve their own problems. It also suggests that only on Linux they would run into trouble, and become dependent on a third party.
The reality, in my experience, is rather different. Most users don't have a clue how to install their OS, as in all likelihood it came pre-installed with their system. Most people will call a friend or family member to help with a computer problem, or search the internet for instructions they don't actually understand. To them, computers are nothing more than a tool, much like their car. And their car, they take to a mechanic, even for the smallest thing they could do themselves.
Switching to Linux poses the same issues as switching from Windows to macOS (and vice versa).
1/2
A Windows user switching to macOS, with no one in their social circle who's familiar with Macs, will suffer just as much as someone switching to Linux without having fellow Linux users they can ask for help. The same goes for macOS users wanting to move to Windows, Android to iOS, etc.
The real problem isn't the (perceived) difficulty of Linux, but rather the lack of popular software such as Microsoft Office, Photoshop, combined with the natural resistance to change, and the sheer unwillingness to learn something new.
Distros such as Linux Mint, Zorin OS, or Elementary OS, to name but a few, have pretty much eliminated the UI learning curve, thanks to their close resemblance to either Windows or macOS, or their ability to switch layouts at will.
2/2
> This is an 'argument' I always refuse to accept
Sure! That is your prerogative.
Nothing that you've written backs up the claim that switching to Linux is "easy" though. Just that other things will also be hard for some people.
@neil
What about the part that the UI learning curve has pretty much been eliminated? 😃
The issue people have (again, in my experience) is having to learn a new way of working. It's the perceived difficulty that switching to a Linux system means not being able to use it without having to learn something first.
Yet the Windows desktop paradigm means that Windows users will instinctively gravitate to the same areas they're used to on Windows: the start button, task bar, system tray, etc. I'm less familiar with macOS and equivalent DEs on Linux to be able to compare them, but Xfce seems to be familiar to Mac users.
I don't, and didn't, claim that switching to Linux is easy. But I reject the notion that it is difficult. And I would argue that it is, in fact, easier to switch from Windows/macOS to Linux than Windows <—> macOS, thanks to the ability to choose a similar UI in case of the former, unlike the latter.
The real difficulty, as stated, lies with the apps.
Then we are probably dancing around semantics a bit.
I very much welcome more people using Linux, and exploring the wealth of Free software out there.
@neil
I guess we are 😃.
And yes, I encourage people to switch to Linux, especially those that don't rely on Microsoft or Adobe software, or are open to switching to alternative apps. Switching them to #FOSS where possible, on their own platform, is a useful first step.
Windows 11, and Apple's abandonment of their Intel machines, are a tremendous help with this process.
"No, you do NOT have to buy a new computer. Your current one EASILY has another 10 years of life left in it if you switch to Linux". 😲
@Dragon @tomstoneham @neil who is "they"?
The gaming companies?
The 60 year olds i mentioned?
Microsoft?
@saxnot @tomstoneham @neil Likely the likes of Microsoft under the guise of "for security"
I'm both cynical and pessimistic so I assume the worst.
@Dragon @tomstoneham @neil this already is a reality today
And yeah it's no guarantee that "disable secure boot" will always be an option
> who is "they"?
Governments / legislatures, or those who control pinch points in terms of hardware or BIOS/UEFI.
In essence, the line of thinking is that "just install Linux" is only viable when one can, indeed, install Linux.
@neil @Dragon @tomstoneham linux is the most used operating system in the world
all the cloud, websites, android, dishwashers etc are using Linux
On the desktop it's not used that much but let's be honest the desktop is dying
> let's be honest the desktop is dying
I am sceptical of this. Much though I'd love to do my work on a dishwasher.
@neil @saxnot @Dragon @tomstoneham I'd think as a a lawyer you'd need to be wary of potential money-laundering claims.
More on topic, I'd think there'll still be *some* use for desktop environments, for (just as examples) software development and work that involves a lot of writing.
@kimvanwyk @saxnot @Dragon @tomstoneham
> I'd think as a a lawyer you'd need to be wary of potential money-laundering claims.
I am sure that one could spin it positively, and come away with clean hands.
@kimvanwyk @neil @Dragon @tomstoneham yeah software development will probably always happen on a full fledged computer
desktop has been indecline for decades and most normies do their things on a tablet or phone
it's not a baseless prediction
I was stating changing usage patterns of the last decade
@saxnot @kimvanwyk @Dragon @tomstoneham
> most normies do their things on a tablet or phone
I can understand this for personal computing, but is that true for business activities? I imagine that lots of computers are, and will continue to be, produced for businesses.
@Dragon @saxnot @kimvanwyk @tomstoneham
> But lets face it Neil most of those will be Windows.
Yep (and users might want WireGuard on them!).
And then when they come onto the secondhand market, potentially other OSs. Most of my machines are ex-corporate laptops.
@neil oh nice to see this on windows while google wants the same on Android, Apple is doing it already.
Maybe i need an abakus and typewriter and change my job to be a model in a historical village?
Could it imply that both accounts have been compromised, and they are waiting for a fix before they make the announcement
@neil so this is the second time it has happened to privacy projects in the span of a few days?
@neil
One locked out sec/privacy dev is a coincidence.
Two is a campaign of aggression...
@neil
this might be individual incident, but i have my suspicions.
this is a good time to remind that alphabet inc already has questionable motives, https://keepandroidopen.org/ . apple devices are already locked down.
@neil I still can't get over the way MS has just lost their everloving minds lately. Don't get me wrong, they've always had horrible business practices and been more than just a bit evil, but at least they had a small veneer of a pretense and generally tried at least to pretend... Now they're just straight up pivoting to that sort of dystopian nightmare corporation that belongs as the villain in stories, not as a thing to exist in real life...)
I seriously can't understand why it's so hard to get people to stop using Microsoft products — especially Windows. And I say that as someone who is a gamer and has been on Microsoft operating systems and a number of their products since my first computer a long long time ago.
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