Mastodawn

King Naga Calyo Lucere-Delphi 1d ago

@chirpbirb Hot damn, yeah, that's a power move.

I'm not sure how I really feel about that, but at the same time:

All passion project software is provided as-is with no warranty, express or implied, and no guarantee of extended long-term support for any version past, current, or future.

The creators and maintainers of passion project software can decide at any time to abandon the project for any reason.

Colin 🐈🌱12h ago

@dragonarchitect @chirpbirb
> All passion project software is provided as-is with no warranty, express or implied, and no guarantee of extended long-term support for any version past, current, or future.

I first thought you were quoting the MIT license there

King Naga Calyo Lucere-Delphi 11h ago

@Colin @chirpbirb I wasn't quoting any specific software license when I wrote that. I was rattling off my own riff on a very common unwarranty disclaimer that a lot of OSS licenses have. 😅

luna the doggie

@chirpbirb damn maybe people will finally start not taking shit for granted

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb nah, they will now shit on the maintainer

then fork it and revert that commit, as well as rename main to master

taco, bird/cat

@alice @lunareclipse ah, i can see the "feat(freedom): liberate repository"

princess pancake

@chirpbirb @alice @lunareclipse librevim - without the woke

Acid Plushy

@natty @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @alice wokevim

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb same as what happened with duckstation

the developer got so fed up with linux users he changed license to one that prohibits distribution (i.e. you can use the provided builds or build it yourself, but not package it) - and ofc linux users respected it and quietly left...

...haha no, they declared the developer the devil, and were (and still are) like: I don't care, you can't stop me

🏳️‍🌈🎃🇧🇷Luana🇧🇷🎃🏳️‍🌈1d ago

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb @alice duckstation is a completely different story

@luana @lunareclipse @chirpbirb how so?

solo 18h ago

@alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @luana I've heard that the duckstation dev is apparently... a specimen.

@solonovamax @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @luana I haven't heard anything, so specifics would be nice

tho idk if that changes anything - like even if he turns out to be fascist for example, I guarantee you that it wouldn't be why people were like fuck you you can't stop me from packaging it

🏳️‍🌈🎃🇧🇷Luana🇧🇷🎃🏳️‍🌈17h ago

@alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @solonovamax you can’t just stop people from packaging your software lmao that’s not how it works

And yeah if you ask me the fact that the guy decided to drop support for linux and support only the OSes made by fascist companies might be enough to make the guy a fascist even

@luana @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @solonovamax I mean case in point - instead of respecting his decision and using sth else you're doing this

solo 17h ago

@alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @luana I don't know enough about specifics to give them to you, but I think brodie has made some videos on it

@solonovamax @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @luana brodie, the same one who appeared on lunduke's show?

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb @solonovamax @luana in other words: I would not trust brodie's judgement on anything, lol

solo 17h ago

@alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @luana I know nothing about any of this, just that he covered it at one point and showed what seemed to be credible information

Etch 14h ago

@alice
I see this a lot on the fediverse, people calling users fascists for using/supporting windows or people saying this like this, its okay to not want to support someone that appeared (once) in a podcast of lunduke(i hate him too) and its true that his frienship with vaxray is questionable, but i cant help but feel like this is a nice excuse to not listen to other points of view, Im not telling you to listen to the opinion of trasphobes/homophobes who'd rather traumatise children than letting people be themselves, Im just saying that people here on fedi take things to such extremes where words like fascist can loose their strong meaning.
Sorry for the double reply just wanted to share my 2 cents on the internet.
@lunareclipse @chirpbirb @solonovamax @luana

13h ago

@Etch9 @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @solonovamax @luana sigh

1. I have a lot of other reasons to distrust brodie, such as knowingly spreading misinfo about projects I'm perfonally involved in. This is the most obvious one and I'm not gonna write an essay every time I reply to somebody

2. have I ignored brodie's points here because I don't like brodie? no, I haven't if you seen my reply to the followup to that post

3. your other reply is doing the same thing with stenzek - he did some bad things so it's ok to be assholes about his projects

Etch 12h ago

@alice

I didnt know about this and I have assumed too much, sorry bout that.

I didnt see the followup too! another self own.

i replied to this and your other reply in that thread.

the direct reply was to you but what trigghered my message was this section in @luana at wetdry.world (dunno if not tagging her is proper etiquette)
"And yeah if you ask me the fact that the guy decided to drop support for linux and support only the OSes made by fascist companies might be enough to make the guy a fascist even"

fedilab after 4 levels of indentation shows everything in the same "line" and i thought i was replying to a single big thread.
In the heat of the moments i have made many mistakes that made it seem like i was specifically going against you, im sorry, ill try to do better.

@Etch9 no problem

your last 2 replies clarified a lot of stuff and I can see your position clearly now and don't disagree with it

solo 17h ago

@alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @luana I believe it was something along the lines of: he threw a hissy fit about how people were using an AUR package that's not his AUR package, so he added something to the CMakeLists that kills the build if you're on arch or nixos, then he threw a hissy fit that people patched it out, then he threw a hissy fit about linux in general, then he tried to relicense eveything with another hissy fit even though you can't really do that, all the while being a cunt to people
also I think there was a hissy fit about wayland somewhere in there

I could be wrong on this, this is just what I remember

@solonovamax @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @luana I mean... yeah, he doesn't want people to package it, why is it a surprise that he would be upset at people packaging it?

like - yeah? that's kinda the point?

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb @solonovamax @luana like: https://github.com/stenzek/duckstation/commit/30df16cc767297c544e1311a3de4d10da30fe00c - see the commit message

Scripts: Remove PKGBUILD · stenzek/duckstation@30df16c

I originally provided this an alternative to the broken AUR packages. However, it seems that Arch users would rather use broken packages and keep complaining to me instead of their packager. I spe...

GitHub

solo 12h ago

@alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @luana again, I don't know the details, but I got the impression that it was a hissy fit and he was a cunt to people

but again, I do not know enough about this

@solonovamax @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @luana I mean I wouldn't say hissy fit, considering he filed a deletion request and aur people basically told him to fuck off - that's a dick move

whether he's cunt to people or not doesn't matter here. That's a separate problem and if people don't like it - they can boycott the project or fork it or just spread awareness about him being cunt (with evidence, and no, "brodie said so" doesn't count as evidence)

meanwhile specifically packaging his project he does not want to see packaged and then telling him to fuck off when he asks to take it down? that's just disrespectful and sends a very bad message to every developer

you can see my other replies in the thread for more details, I'm not gonna type the entire summary here

see also endrift's comment here, I agree with her position here: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/duckstation-git?O=20#comment-1035344

AUR (en) - duckstation-git

solo 11h ago

@alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @luana again, I know jack about shit here

11h ago

@solonovamax @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @luana i mean I described the situation, at this point you can read the replies, and this was my last reply in this thread

Etch 14h ago

@alice
as far as i know stenzek is fairly problematic because he never thinks he's in the wrong, he has changed nicknames and infiltrated back into project that cut contact with him.
He is very talented (he's the one that finished the ubershader project for dolphin after the original creator burned out) but imo he has zero social skills, its true that he has every right to do whaever he wants with his project but expecting people to stop packaging the last gpl commit is very naive, there are smarter solutions to the linux packaging issue that he will never consider because he wants to die on that hill, duckstation's situation is different and more complex than just users being assholes.
He has something against linux too, he's the guy that dropped wayland support on pcsx2, not to mention the fiasco regarding some of his android projects where he stole money from patreon and backstabbed his discord moderators (while using an alt account for unknown reasons)
@lunareclipse @chirpbirb @solonovamax @luana

13h ago

@Etch9 @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @solonovamax @luana sure, then just ignore his projects and walk away

that's not what happened here, is it not?

Etch 12h ago

@alice
i am in fact ignoring duckstation, i dont use it, and hadnt thought about him since before this thread.
Since you said "haven't heard anything, so specifics would be nice" i gave you those specifics, i can give you links if you want them (i would need to do some research to find again all the info).
My point is that the AUR is a user repo, its very naive to expect that everyone will respect your wishes when you dont maintain the AUR package yourself.
As a maintainer he has every right to change the license and trying to block repackaging, but since the code was gpl the user had the right to repackage it with the same license, the maintainer has the choice of dealing with this reality and culture in different ways and imho stenzek chose the least effective one(before the license change).
If the AUR is hosting post license change code then the Arch team needs to take action.
Im sorry for the long replies and if i sound confrontational.
i meant to send this earlier but i saved as draft

@Etch9 this reply makes sense

aur very much is still hosting it, stenzek actually filed a removal request at some point but was ignored

and yeah, like boycotting it, or forking it would be the correct choices of action. Instead people decided to circumvent his license and call him a fascist for not wanting to support linux. Spreading awareness about what he did is also good, thx for doing that (I wasn't aware of that, for example - because the only thing people talk about is - "this guy sucks he made his app PROPRIETARY! he's saying he doesn't want to do work for free, fuck him for that, i want the app, gimme the app"

which... as I developer myself, this just tells me that people will immediately throw you under the bus if you do anything they don't like

whether he's a bad person outside of this is really irrelevant in this context - same as e.g. it would still be bad to misgender someone like caitlyn jenner - they are horrible people but that has nothing to do with being trans or not

same as here stenzek being a bad person has nothing to do with not wanting to support linux (which is not really surprising considering how people behave)

AUR (en) - duckstation-git

@Etch9 basically my stance here is the same as the one of the mgba developer, in this comment: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/duckstation-git?O=20#comment-1035344

AUR (en) - duckstation-git

Raven667 1d ago

@alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb huh, funny coincidence in timeline https://s3kshun8.games/blog/flatpak-won/

Gabe Newell Is Shitting Yacht Money into Flatpak and You're Still Arguing about Init Systems

S3kshun8's Lair

@raven667 that's a pretty good writeup

i feel bad for the person who wrote it because of the kind of replies they will get

@raven667 what i hate the most about this situaton is - a lot of the people the article is talking about are perfectly reasonable people... as long as linux is not mentioned

like - as a developer who is similarly focused on making a usable app development platform, I'm more familiar with that kind of people than I'd like to

Sydney / Prophet 🏳️‍⚧️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿1d ago

@raven667 @alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb I rather like this writeup because as a Semi new Linux user (4 years and change) AppImage fucking sucks ass, I spent hours and hours trying to figure out how to integrate it into my DE and couldn't for the life of me work it out, because one piece of Software only shipped as an AppImage

eobet 23h ago

@raven667 @alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb that article read weird to me. Are they saying that all corporations sinking billions into Linux are benevolent? As if the corruption of Mozilla by Google’s money never happened?

Raven667 16h ago

@eobet @alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb no, I'm sure the simple "hot take" is not what they are talking about, but I guess everyone reads from their own perspective and gets something different out. They are talking about the ways that some companies invest in Linux desktop technologies, and the ways of distributing software that works for end users who aren't developers, enthusiests and hobbiests, like the work Valve has put into making SteamDeck a viable platform and the positive effects that has on the wider ecosystem. There is definitely a tension between the volunteers who make popular traditional Linux distros and their goals and the companies who turn Linux into products that compete with MS, Apple and Google.

Ratsnake Games 🔞17h ago

@alice yeah, that's just collective punishment. And it's not just "refusing to do work", it's preventing others from doing helpful work for the community just to punish people.

Of course people are gonna be upset by that. It's a massive dick move.

@ratsnakegames you're free to fork the commit from before that change and continue it. Same as you are if the developer archives their repo and leaves

if your reaction is calling it a dick move and collective punishment - that means you value the code above the developer's mental health, and if they stop giving their work to you for free - that's a dick move. Exactly what I was talking above

don't bother arguing, I'll block you if you do

Ratsnake Games 🔞17h ago

@alice arbitrarily making life harder for Linux users because some Linux users were mean to you, in a way that doesn't even save you actual work, has nothing to do with "mental health".

I call it collective punishment because that is what it is, and if you think calling things by their name makes me an evil person, feel free to block me.

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb this post is now a honeypot for exactly this kind of people ig

Justin Fitzsimmons 1d ago

@alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb they were already able to do that the whole time, now the toxic harassers can deal with their own toxic harassers instead 🤷‍♂️

electron tamer in training 🍂1d ago

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb yeah, as stated in the fucking license, maintainers don’t owe anything to anyone

Some months ago someone was trying to force me to accept their PR, I told multiple times that I will review it anytime soon when I have some energy again

They was still pushy, poking me every couple of weeks, sucking my energy like a vampire

So I took my distance to not suffer and now we’re 9 months later and I don’t give a fuck and will return when I’ll be ready 🤷‍♀️

electron tamer in training 🍂1d ago

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb I’m so pissed out of people acting like I am at their complete disposal that my latest works are using this license where the only condition is that there is absolutely no warranty in any way

> Usage of the works is permitted provided that this instrument is retained with the works, so that any entity that uses the works is notified of this instrument.
> DISCLAIMER: THE WORKS ARE WITHOUT WARRANTY.

The Doctor 18h ago

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb Yeah, right.

solo 18h ago

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb 0% chance

🩷💜 PYNK 💜🩷1d ago

@chirpbirb
a shitstain named shustain

nominative determinism strikes again

Frawst 1d ago

@pynk @chirpbirb kojima youve done it again

lia 1d ago

@chirpbirb To be fair, making an at least somewhat functional plugin crash on some versions just because you don't officially support them is quite hostile and practically malware.

Of course they can maintain whatever versions they want, and the other guy is a dick, but deliberately making it crash when users use it "wrong" is quite toxic. Especially for something as essential as a text editor. Livelihoods could be at stake

krig 1d ago

@lianna @chirpbirb If ”livelihoods are at stake” then they can do the most basic amount of work required, read the readme and just pin the commit they want. Come on.

pettter 19h ago

@krig Or you know, do _anything_ to support the development of the tool that apparently their livelihood depends on. @lianna @chirpbirb

Steven Reed 1d ago

@lianna @chirpbirb bailing out with an error message is hardly "making it crash" - and at the end of the day how hard is it to click the fork button and revert that change? Bearing in mind this software pretty much guaranteed to be used by people with development experience.

Graham Sutherland / Polynomial 1d ago

@lianna @chirpbirb

> practically malware

can we please stop saying this. it's patently not true and just waters down the term "malware" to the point where it's useless. there are other terms you can use.

Talya (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️✡️1d ago

@gsuberland @lianna @chirpbirb
gotta love it when the comments just prove the maintainer right...

lia 1d ago

@Yuvalne @gsuberland @chirpbirb I guess making people's setups crash if you don't like their software is now completely acceptable in Mastodon reply-guy land. what a wonderful eternal september we're having on fedi