So @sotolf reminded me of something I kind of love. The Japanese "30-hour system". Used in nightlife, broadcasting, and transport, the time extends the day past midnight to keep late-night events grouped with the same calendar day. So a club open from 11PM to 1AM might list its hours as 23:00–25:00.
We should all adopt this!
Sadly Wikipedia does not have a detailed page on this system in English but here is a little longer explanation:
Ok, I did not find an article on extended times (past midnight) from NASA but you can indeed find references that confirm it is a thing they do, e.g. from this page:
https://www.nasa.gov/history/afj/ap15fj/05day2_checking_sps.html
@sotolf Then again the Americans are already scared of the 24 hour clock. If we push for the 30 hour notation I think they might lose it altogether.
But… they did give us Trump, so I am not adverse to making them feel a little uncomfortable. 🤷
Here's an idea. Many smartphones and watches have sleep trackers. If your smart device knows you have not slept yet, should it list the time with this 30 hour system?
I mean if you stayed up late and decided to go to a club it might help if your watch used the same notation for closing times as the place you want to get into, right?
Especially if you are a little drunk as it requires less thinking. 🤔
A nice comment/observation from @th
https://social.v.st/@th/115259199472957368
"@ruari the GTFS spec uses this for transit system https://developers.google.com/transit/ "
Something similar was also pointed out to me by @hananc, " In Israel, there is a bus that leaves at midnight and a half. In the timeline it says 24:30 of the previous date so people are not confused which midnight and half it leaves at."
@[email protected] In Israel, there is a bus that leaves at midnight and a half. In the timeline it says 24:30 of the previous date so people are not confused which midnight and half it leaves at.
Another useful comment from @hananc, "it is mentioned in this wikipedia page…"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-hour_clock#Times_after_24:00
which in turn also links to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_and_time_notation_in_Japan#Time
@sabik @ruari
39. 24:12:34 is a invalid time
https://infiniteundo.com/post/25509354022/more-falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-time
@th Ok, I did the best I could with the tools I have got. 🤷
I wanted to have this in the thread itself so more would find/notice it.
Attached: 1 image A nice comment/observation from @[email protected] https://social.v.st/@th/115259199472957368 "@ruari the GTFS spec uses this for transit system https://developers.google.com/transit/ "
@ruari
But that's Nasa...
"Endeavour, you are go for throttle-up to 104%".
Why? Because when they upgraded the shuttle engines, they couldn't be bothered to update the manuals and checklists, so everything is still in percent of maximum power of the original engines.
@FediThing @sotolf With the AM/PM time notation, just always remember that 12 is hour 0 hour. Thus 11AM is followed by 12PM.
Other tips:
• You can remember the order for AM/PM by recalling that 'A' is before 'P' (alphabetically)
• Avoid using AM and PM for the 12 hours if you can. Just say 12 midnight or 12 midday/noon, as people are more likely to understand you.
@FediThing Also, I disagree with you for once my friend, 25:00 is even "better" 🤪
@sotolf The key bit is AM is morning and PM is after midday. If you want to know the order, one trick is just to remind yourself that alphabetically A is before P.
To know what to do with 12 itself, just remember it is actually the zero hour. So 12AM, 1AM, 2AM … 10AM, 11AM. That is then is followed by 12PM, 1PM, 2PM … 10PM, 11PM.
I would assume the reason we use 12 and not 0 is simply because 0 is a "relatively" new concept and timekeeping is old as fuck. 🤣
@sotolf @FediThing @sotolf I wrote a whole article on this.
https://ruario.vivaldi.net/2023/10/31/how-to-use-the-am-pm-notation-when-talking-about-time/
Warning: That article has what I am pretty sure is an LLM image at the top (I stumbled over it one day). I decided to use it because the the LLM obviously fucked up and that kind of helps give the idea of the confusion non-Americans have with AM/PM. Also no need for me to give anyone credit for the image as that LLM generator itself obviously stole someone else's work.
"Funnily enough I think of 24:00 as the end of the night and 0:00 as the beginning of the early morning :p"
Which is both true and also aligns with the Japanese system. 😉
@sotolf Nah, you are not biased, just sensible! 😉
Well at least I'm sensible when it comes to one thing :p
Yes they do say or understand it wrong with regards to 12 and I touch on that in the article. It is why I specifically say that you should avoid AM/PM when talking about 12 altogether. Just don't do it!
The only reason I want to teach people how it is supposed to work is, so that you understand when someone else is talking to you or so that you can read a timetable for planes, trains, etc. when on holiday in the US [Though honestly, who is doing that anymore I guess… 😢 ].
@FediThing @sotolf Basically learn how itis supposed to work (12 is the zero hour) so you might understand Americans but never actually say 12AM or 12PM yourself, even when talking with Americans with their own terms.
P.S. It is not just Americans actually 😉, quite a long of the English speaking world uses AM/PM verbally (even those that would write 24 hour times).
In doing demurrage calculations (liquidated damages for delay of a ship in load or discharge) before I had access to a computer; much the easiest way was to add up all the mins, all the hours, and all the days to get an unholy figure DD:hhh:mmm in which the hrs and mins were way over 24 and 60 respectively. Then do a big min->HR and then an hr->d.
This led to me also working the other way calculations ending up with an expected time of sailing of 24.Spt.2025 37:75z
@MatthewNewell Love it and it also shows the problem of time based math due to the different bases used.
It won't happen of course but its why we should have gone decimal
Attached: 1 image How about more time trivia then. So what is the deal with 12 hour clocks if we have 24 hours in a day? Furthermore, why 24 hours? And if they are 24 hours in a day, why are there 60 minutes and 60 seconds? This seems illogical, right? Maybe we should decimalize it, like we did with the metric system! #DecimalTime #DecimalWatch #TimeTrivia
@jfml That's OK, people get it wrong so often, I once wrote a guide. 🤣
https://ruario.vivaldi.net/2023/10/31/how-to-use-the-am-pm-notation-when-talking-about-time/
@ruari @sotolf This is brilliant! Smart watches and phones need to adapt this.
I mean, if I look at my watch and it’s Monday 0:30 I know what time it is. I don’t REALLY need a 30h notation.
BUT if I then set the alarm for ‘Tomorrow 6am’, I need it to ring on bloody Monday!
Devices may display the normal time, but use the ‘extended’ time until they detected that I went to bed – especially for speech commands.
I propose this hashtag to make this demand visible: #30hrsNOW
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