Mastodawn

The Fury 🐧💻❗️🔥

They pay $34 for burgers. Should their fire department service be free? Opening a new fire department in one of NYC's richest neighborhoods has some of America's pettiest journalists asking silly questions in headlines again.🤡

The article acknowledges the fire department analogy, then blows past it.🤷🏿‍♂️

The solve for "Sometimes when a service like free childcare is available to all, marginalized communities get squeezed out," is "Address that racism."

It's not "Therefore waste incredible amounts of time and money trying to means test something that society should just make available to all.🤡"

Brian David 1d ago

@mekkaokereke At this point I honestly find it hilarious how much the NYT hates Mamdani. Every one of these headlines uses the stupidest imaginable pretzel logic trying to spin an obvious good into something problematic.

Paraendroid 1d ago

@mekkaokereke
It's the same everywhere. WTF.

@ectopod @mekkaokereke
nypost 🤝 nytimes
irrational mamdani hate

Woozle Hypertwin 1d ago

@mekkaokereke The "but then rich people get more of it" argument consistently feels like concern-trolling designed to provide an excuse to clamp down on means-testing, which of course makes the problem worse because rich people always have ways to get around bureaucratic obstacles.

(cf. buying a second house in another school-zone so you don't have to send your kids to the "bad" (underfunded) school.)

Wendroid 🇺🇦1d ago

@woozle @mekkaokereke Espesh since rich people always get more of everything anyway, so wtf? Let it go. 👀

Woozle Hypertwin 23h ago

And, like, they should be paying more than enough taxes to cover the costs of their usage of any public service many times over -- how else to make the budget work when we have such extreme inequality? So sure, they should get the benefits of it too.

Wendroid 🇺🇦22h ago

@woozle @mekkaokereke Their attitude is always, why should the poors get something they don’t pay for? In truth the lower & working classes pay most of the taxes.

Woozle Hypertwin 22h ago

I just wanna smack anyone who makes that argument in all seriousness.

Like omg people, do you want a civilization or not??? 😡

Fishercat 1d ago

I agree that the solve for marginalized communities getting squeezed out of public goods is to address that racism. I also think there are ways to put marginalized communities at the head of the line. Because there will be a line.

It looks like they selected the neighborhoods where the first few childcare slots are going in based on child poverty levels and lack of childcare access. That seems exactly right to me. If there are some wealthy parents in that net, fine. Their kids' buddies won't be.

DB Schwein 1d ago

@Fishercat @mekkaokereke

Yes, this.

What part of "universal" does the NYT not understand?

AccordionBruce 1d ago

@deirdrebeth @Fishercat @mekkaokereke
The 2,000 Billionaires should be the first people to get free tampons

And then everybody else on earth who needs them

It’s not hard to see how means-testing is an excuse to not give thing to the poor

DB Schwein 1d ago

@AccordionBruce @Fishercat @mekkaokereke

That's exactly the opposite of what I was saying, and agreeing with.

Wendroid 🇺🇦1d ago

@deirdrebeth @Fishercat @mekkaokereke That poor kids might get something that rich kids get.

Captain Superlative 1d ago

In other news, the word ‘universal’ means… universal.

Ben Lings 1d ago

@mekkaokereke 💯 The UK’s attempts to make child-related benefits income-dependent (see https://archive.ph/2026.03.25-225320/https://www.ft.com/content/e8f10ba1-e555-45c9-8c46-8ef77aa38854) have lead to huge distortions in people’s behaviour, where people are reducing hours to avoid being worse off due to a pay rise. Much better to not tax having children.

@mekkaokereke one of the core lessons of public health is that bureaucracy is _expensive_. The entire “Who should pay what!?” Exercise slows the systems down and costs a ton of money and basically all it produces is spreadsheets that cruel selfish people use to be cruel and selfish, and that crowd can’t wrap their heads around the fact that the other thing that’s great about public services being public services is that it’s cheaper.

Paul_IPv6 1d ago

@mhoye @mekkaokereke

all sorts of services. education, food programs, health, public transportation, postal services.

they are public goods. they don't need to "make a profit". any decently run program won't have enough fraud to make it worth charging money and tracking the use. what they will save in costs and result in overall improvement in quality of life for all will more than make them worth it.

problem is, as soon as you say anything like that (or universal health care, UBI, etc.) there are screams of "that's communism" (no it isn't) or "socialism" (not exactly). capitalism (which we don't really have either) is a sacred cow. no one dares to criticize capitalism.

sigh...

CrazyDogLadySezPEACE 8h ago

@mhoye @mekkaokereke 💯

Lorraine Lee 2h ago

@mhoye @mekkaokereke The efficiency experts can't conceive of themselves as a cost center.

Laura "Tegan" Gjovaag ⛈ 🐸1d ago

@mekkaokereke
When school lunch programs throw out the "who deserves to get free lunches?" and just provide for every child, the entire program is cheaper due to the lack of an enforcement layer, all children get fed, and children learn more and pay attention better.

Being overly concerned that someone might get something they don't "deserve" usually ends up screwing over the ones who need help most.

We're supposed to "promote the general welfare" of the public - not gate-keep who gets help.

Raymond Russell 1d ago

@realtegan @mekkaokereke
My pet hate.
When you start to "means test" something that really should be universal the means test itself costs money to administer and you create a barrier to some of those who should be benefiting but may not be able to navigate the red tape required for many many reasons.

Nicolai von Neudeck 1d ago

@raymierussell @realtegan @mekkaokereke I used to make software for calculation of the distribution of social welfare (we were actually hard limited in how much we could give, because we were the student government redistributing money between students, so it was justified in my opinion) and oh dear is it not free to figure out if someone should get something if you calculate how rich or poor they are

Raymond Russell 1d ago

@nicolai
classic paradox in the UK welfare system is that right leaning people will complain about fraud in the system. Its true that there is fraud BUT there is 10 times (at least) in unclaimed benefits because the system is so difficult to navigate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yv0e9yjexo

Millions missing out on benefits and government support, analysis suggests

A report from Policy in Practice says awareness, complexity and stigma are the main barriers stopping people claiming.

BBC News

Eric Lawton 1d ago

💯
And we already have the right machinery to recover the money from those who don't need it: it's called the tax system. Fox that instead of introducing program-by-program assessments.

@realtegan @mekkaokereke @bonaventuresoft

Raymond Russell 1d ago

@EricLawton @realtegan @mekkaokereke @bonaventuresoft

Absolutely, if you tax those who can afford it then there should no complaints about them getting 'free' stuff as they are getting out from a system that they have paid the most into.

@realtegan @mekkaokereke Sigh. I really hate the mindset of “what if someone undeserving benefits.”

So what? Especially when it involves children.

Laura "Tegan" Gjovaag ⛈ 🐸1d ago

@CStamp @mekkaokereke
Exactly.

And by giving everyone a free lunch and breakfast, it removes the stigma of "being too poor" to pay for lunch. That removes a tiny portion of the humiliation that comes from living in poverty.

Then there's the families who cannot figure out how to apply for the free lunch program - or don't have time because the parent(s) work extra jobs. Those children don't go hungry if every child is fed.

We need to stop gate-keeping who needs help, and just help people.

@realtegan @mekkaokereke If the US has trillions of $ to bomb children in other nations, they certainly have $ to feed its own kids. :(

Kids are the most importantly resource of any country.

Stephen Dioxide

@CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke
“Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”
― Adam Smith

"The primary function of government is to protect the minority of the opulent from the majority of the poor."
- James Madison

@Steve @CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke

And at least Madison thought this was a feature rather than a bug. In fact Madison's obsessive worry that in a democracy the majority of the poor might vote in laws that would protect them from capitalist predation, which after all is how he and his founding buddies made their dough, is why we have a republic rather than a democracy. He lays it all out in the open in Federalist 10.

https://billofrightsinstitute.org/primary-sources/federalist-no-10/

Federalist No. 10 by James Madison | Majority Rule v Minority Rights

Federalist No.10 written by James Madison defended the form of republican government proposed by the Constitution.

National Leader in Civic Education Resources | Bill of Rights Institute

Philip Mallegol-Hansen 1d ago

@CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke Is it even *possible* for anyone (a child in particular) to be undeserving?

Seems like a pretty vital assumption that the answer is yes, but I’m not convinced.

Yenn dc ☂️1d ago

I *might* be willing to concede that people who can afford to (and do) put effort into keeping others from eating are [themselves undeserving].

That's about it tho.

MikeStok 1d ago

@CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke if we’re going to give billionaires and corporations tax breaks then feeding kids without means testing seems like small change.

Ken Milmore 1d ago

@CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke "Deserves got nothing to do with it"

Greg Bell 1d ago

@CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke also, means testing is expensive, hard, and sucks. The most cost-effective way to help everyone who deserves it, is to help everyone.

George B 22h ago

@CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke

Most American thing is making 100 people suffer to avoid 1 freeloader.

@gbargoud But what if the wrong children get to eat? @CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke

Bruce Mirken 19h ago

@Thad @gbargoud @CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke This whole discussion is so silly because any perceived problem is easily solved in 2 simple steps: 1) Feed ALL the kids. 2) Tax the rich so they pay their fair share of the program's total cost. Was that hard?

Bruce Mirken 19h ago

@Thad @gbargoud @CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke And of course, the same principle applies to healthcare, child care, etc., etc. Not complicated with 10 seconds of thought.

Carolyn 18h ago

@BruceMirken @Thad @gbargoud @realtegan @mekkaokereke Seems so logical.

Lukas Grossar 16h ago

@CStamp @BruceMirken @Thad @gbargoud @realtegan @mekkaokereke Yeah, but only if you're a socialist! /s

Bruce Mirken 16h ago

@tongpu @CStamp @Thad @gbargoud @realtegan @mekkaokereke Better that than a capitalist! 😂

Carolyn 14h ago

@tongpu @BruceMirken @Thad @gbargoud @realtegan @mekkaokereke Or decent human?

cwicseolfor 9h ago

@Thad Headline concision. They ought to update theirs. @gbargoud @CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke

Rupert V/20h ago

@gbargoud @CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke More like making 10,000 people suffer to create one millionaire and blaming it on the 100 "freeloaders".

CassandraVert 18h ago

That's about 1/3 of the country on the far right. It's not everyone. 1/3 on the left would say let's feed all the kids in case one is hungry. And the 1/3 in the middle vascillate.

Pulchra, Impudica, Beata 16h ago

@gbargoud @[email protected] @realtegan @mekkaokereke That's very Finnish thing too.

Jennifer 14h ago

@gbargoud @CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke

Also, we'll spend way more money to check that no one is free loading than it would cost to just let those 4 people who don't strictly *need* it, have it.

Passenger 13h ago

@jennifer @gbargoud @CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke

Also, the best way to make sure that something is widely popular among all classes is to make it available to everyone without means-testing, and one of the best ways to make something into a mark of shame among among poor people and a target of derision among less poor people is to means-test it.

JimmyB (he/him)13h ago

@CStamp @gbargoud @mekkaokereke @jennifer @realtegan

And has been pointed out so many times: the right would rather 100 suffered than let 1 benefit when they are judged unworthy where the left would rather 100 benefited when perhaps they aren’t truly eligible than let 1 suffer. In the UK the return from prosecuting tax fraud is huge: but what do we prioritise?

I’m convinced by the argument that cruelty is the point

@gbargoud @aj @CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke I remember hearing stories about Americans who, when donating an old coat to charity, would cut the buttons off first so that the charity recipient who got it didn’t feel too cocky about their new, unearned clothes

The Animal and the Machine 11h ago

@gbargoud @CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke
Harm is primary to racism.

Why help 99 white poor people and one Black person when you can harm the Black person. Racists believe the Black person must not be able to stand. It’s pure irrational fear of a 180 flip and them being enslaved. They mirror how they are onto how others will be.

All other instances, including on all whites, stem from this being set as a mental model of how to operate.

The model isn’t challenged on the poor because it would led to the same question on the colour, and remember, harm to Blacks IS the point. The route of poverty in the US is racism.

It is all, what magicians would call, ‘misdirection’.

As long as the core philosophy is on splitting society and not building the American Dream, you will get questions on freeloading.

Side note. There are no freeloaders to basic human rights.

We the people.

Renalia - #1 pizza downloader 11h ago

@gbargoud @CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke but of course, not the freeloaders in charge of everything, no, just the imaginary freeloader they point at who works 2000% harder than a billionaire ever had to.

Julie Hughes 9h ago

@CStamp @realtegan @mekkaokereke and it's never a criteria applied to the rich

Humphrey Archer 1d ago

Trying to carve out a "special" class who are entitled to school lunch has always been a foolish approach that just adds layers of expensive policing that INEVITABLY wind up costing more than they save, and preventing some number of eligible students from getting serviced.

Unfortunately, some people are always more focused on the remote or insignificant risk of cheaters, than they are on make sure that they are servicing those who need it

Just make it free to all

wakejagr 1d ago

@screwturn @realtegan @mekkaokereke

Yup. School lunch should be free for all.

Want to make sure that people who make more than some arbitrary amount don't get freebies? Tax the rich.