Mastodawn

Emeritus Prof Christopher May

Having awarded a major contract to (controversial) data firm Palantir, a growing number of NHS staff are refusing to work with the firm's tools for ethical reasons, with wider passive resistance to its deployment.

One manger said: 'People are saying, ‘I refuse to work on this software. You have to find something else for me to do’... They’re calling it a workplace adjustment. [as] if you were disabled & needed a different desk, they’re literally treating it like that'!

#NHS #Palantir
h/t FT

Roth Child 2d ago

@ChrisMayLA6 I was really pleased to see this.

I wrote to my (labour) MP saying I wanted to opt out of my data being given to Palantir (or anything associated with Peter Thiel) and got a very wet response about 'your data won't be hacked' (as if that was the issue...) I pointed out that having the big fox in the henhouse, keeping the other foxes out, didn't reassure me!

I didn't get a further response, but it does seem I'm not the only one in expressing such discomfort!

@thechildofroth

I've heard variations of this said before and while it might be a neat political deflection it completely misses the point.

MPs are mostly, sometimes laughably ignorant of technology but you'd hope that they'd make an effort to keep up with some of the more obvious technical trends and public sentiment.

Roth Child 2d ago

@ReggieHere @ChrisMayLA6 to be this far in to the 21st century and not understand surveillance capitalism, as a politician, is a pretty scary place (for those of us represented by these people) to be!

@thechildofroth

I suppose the question is to what degree our MPs are aware of the global geopolitical implications, and by extension whether they themselves are conflicted.

Running a country using software and infrastructure provided by a foreign government raises some serious questions about national sovereignty.

Eliza MB 2d ago

@thechildofroth @ChrisMayLA6
How can your MP be sure your data won’t be hacked? Is this her area of expertise?

Roth Child 2d ago

@OneInterestingFact @ChrisMayLA6 They can't, they were just passing on the canned response they'd been give (by Palantir)

SamuelJohnson 2d ago

@thechildofroth @ChrisMayLA6 You just needed to notify your local GP practice.

Andii אַנדִֽי 10h ago

@thechildofroth @ChrisMayLA6
I've sometimes responded to MP that I don't think the whips or the media office are serving them well ....

Roth Child 2d ago

@ChrisMayLA6 BTW https://gwallter.com/politics/who-is-louis-mosley.html like it says; you can't choose your ancestors, but when your grandad was Oswald Mosley, you might think twice about taking a role leading a company named after Sauron's all seeing eye of corruption, who (for anyone paying even moderate attention) are the vanguard of tech-bro fascism....

Roth Child 2d ago

@ChrisMayLA6 The other thing i asked my mp was if they thought Peter Thiel was a fit and proper person, for a nominally progressive govt, to deal with and then had to follow up when I realised they couldn't answer because govt hadn't procured the service, but direct awarded it on the back of some shady business with Mandelson....

no brain no pain 2d ago

@ChrisMayLA6 at least some people do have balls.

National Health Service...?

Emeritus Prof Christopher May 2d ago

Yes....

@cy If it’s a genuine question in the UK the countries have free healthcare at the point of need. You pay nothing. It’s the same in the western world except the USoAmerica where people are expected to pay for every paracetamol.

No, my genuine question is why the flying fuck is the National Health Service doing business with Palantir?!

@cy Ahh well this is where it gets interesting, NHS England is run by Downing Street who have been trying to sell bits of it off to their pals for years and privatise it. NHS Scotland is run by Bute House who represent the people and have not tried to sell it off and resisted such changes. I’ve not really checked for sure on this but I’m guessing this is an NHS England issue. 😁

Would that the whole world could be ruled by Scotland with an iron fist...

@kDelta @cy Irn Fist

@seb321 @cy 🤣👍

Interesting, do you know this from inside knowledge, if you don't mind me asking.

I head noises about 5 or so years ago where it was being pushed in some tech circles in Scotland for the local health partnerships, I was aware of Palantir then, and was quite vocal in my opposition.

@houba I may be incorrect, I was just saying in general. ☺️

JohnMashey 2d ago

@ChrisMayLA6
I’ve attended 3 NoKings days in nearby Palo Alto, home of Palantir, which inspired my sign to reference British author’ John Brunner’s “The Shockwave Rider”:

@ChrisMayLA6 Good. Fuck Palantir and all stupid shoehorned in "spicy autocorrect" BS. Pushback has to happen in every company using these "tools", for as long as it takes for corporations to realise they are not profitable.

In fact, they are costing them money and time and people. Why spend more on some garbage in garbage out system that is only going to cause more headaches and frustration?

Simon Johnson 2d ago

@ChrisMayLA6 the Grauniad was also reporting last year, when the DoH was leaning on NHS Trusts to accelerate its introduction, that frontline staff were also in revolt because the software was useless compared to what they were already using

Let’s hope the backlash kills it once & for all. Then we just need Palantir extricated from the police, military and all the other aspects of government in which they have been embedded

Emeritus Prof Christopher May 2d ago

Yup, exactly what we all need to do where we can

This is encouraging news and I can even understand the choice to reuse an existing process to cater for the detractors, but I'm left wondering whether the govt understands or cares about the wider issues of technical sovereignty.

Simon Flett 2d ago

@ChrisMayLA6 Fabulous. Full respect to the individuals involved. Minister Streeting will predictably attempt strong-arm tactics , but will face solidarity and strike action. He has lost, and must back down. Wise citizens loathe Palantir and everything it stands for. NHS data is PRIVATE to citizen patients &, by consent, their NHS doctors.

Kerplunk 2d ago

Thank you for info

One manger said: 'People are saying, ‘I refuse to work on this software. You have to find something else for me to do’.

A massive THANK YOU for such Persons with a conscience and backbone

Things which cannot be found in Starmers office or among his subordinated minions.

@ChrisMayLA6 "Controversial" seems like a very non-committal term for a clearly evil outfit.

Emeritus Prof Christopher May 2d ago

British under-statement, I'm afraid....

@ChrisMayLA6 I understand, just slightly less enthused by the passive voice these days.

Mind of Frankestein 2d ago

@ChrisMayLA6 sometimes all you can do is shake your head and leave it to Darwin...

@ChrisMayLA6 THis is the way. Such action needs to happen in anything to do with data centres too.

WanWizard 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇳🇱2d ago

@ChrisMayLA6 Read yesterday that ABP, the Dutch pension fund for civil servants, and the largest in The Netherlands, has announced it is pulling its investments in Palantir.

Patrick Leavy 2d ago

@ChrisMayLA6 you can crank up the pressure on the uk gov by signing this open letter to the uk government to cancel the #Palantir #NHS contract:

https://www.foxglove.org.uk/campaigns/wes-streeting-trigger-the-break-clause-and-get-palantir-out-of-the-nhs/

Wes Streeting: Trigger the break clause and get Palantir out of the NHS - Foxglove

Wes Streeting: trigger the break clause and kick Palantir out of our NHS. ADD YOUR NAME NOW!

Foxglove

Emeritus Prof Christopher May 2d ago

thanks, have done so

Patrick Leavy 2d ago

@ChrisMayLA6 and while we're rejecting #Palantir why not cut to the source of most problems: our behavioural data being harvested by #BigTech

I set up a non-profit, the Rebel Tech Alliance, to show people all the non-spyware alternatives that they can switch to:

https://www.rebeltechalliance.org/

We have a step-by-step programme called the #BigTechWalkout 😁 Collective action we can all take individually!

#privacy #surveillance

Rebel Tech Alliance

Werawelt 1d ago

@patrickleavy
A great initiative!
Regarding Protonmail: Proton must provide information to the USA, e.g. which Visa card number is used for payment; the investigating authority can then use this information to locate the possibly US owner. Proton has to do this if the Swiss authorities order it, and it has happened before. Mailbox.org is better; you can even send cash for payment by post letter there - completely anonymously! Is in Fediverse: @mailbox_org
Chat: #Deltachat is fully encrypted, anonymous and very easy to use, and free (donate well seen). Deltachat's server is located in Germany; there are more Server in the EU. Deltachat is co-financed by the EU. It's also in Fediverse: @delta

Patrick Leavy 1d ago

@werawelt hi there, yes mailbox is good. We don't list it in the main table on that page due to not having full E2EE, but we mention it below in the text.

I've been trying out Delta Chat with my co-founder. It seemed to only work well when both devices had the app open. Is that a thing? Or something that's been fixed?

Werawelt 1d ago

@patrickleavy
I'm not know that problem at all. I sent posts with attachments, which were only retrieved 3 days later, without any problems.
The only important thing is that both have the current deltachat version of the program. But from a security perspective, that's actually a given. The program also gives you the information when you should make an update.

Eldritch kcarruthers 12h ago

@ChrisMayLA6 @roens Shame on UK’s NHS for using Palantir AI technology (and Shame on any government using this technology)

Tom Stoneham 11h ago

@ChrisMayLA6 Do you have a link to the FT article?

Emeritus Prof Christopher May 10h ago

here it is; I don't normally include FT links as they are behind an(able Seay to circumvent) paywall...

https://www.ft.com/content/dbb67083-bd1d-46e9-b196-1438d54c5795?syn-25a6b1a6=1

NHS staff boycott Palantir’s data platform over ethical concerns

Controversial US tech group was awarded a £330mn contract in 2023 to collate hospital and patient information

Financial Times

Tom Stoneham 8h ago

@ChrisMayLA6
> An NHS spokesperson said: “All suppliers, including Palantir, and their staff operate ... under NHS control and governed by strict contractual confidentiality obligations.”

= #ReguloSolutionism in action.

Contracts are the first line of defence but with a company as large and powerful as #Palantir they are no guarantee. As Eric Schmidt said:

> if [you made money], then you'd hire a whole bunch of lawyers to go clean the mess up, right?

Contracts/law is just a cost of business

Martin Vermeer FCD 10h ago

@ChrisMayLA6 Well, treating having a conscience as a disability sort of feels familiar to autistic people. Some 'disabilities' are an affliction of society rather than of individuals.