Today is the annual #TransDayOfVisibility.

*waves at all the lovely trans people here*. I am delighted to share this space with you.

There is still so much more than we - cis people - can and must do to make the world safer and friendlier for trans people.

Practical thoughts:

1) actively encourage trans people into your community and spaces. Be explicitly clear that they are welcome.

2) promote and enforce robust codes of conduct, and ask for this in events to which you contribute.

3) report anti-trans content to your own instance admins, and to the hosting instance admin if it makes sense to do so.

4) buy stuff (if you are in a position to do so) from trans people. Loads of trans people in the fediverse have small shops selling cool bits and pieces (drawings, books, jewellery, and more).

5) if you control the design of forms and systems, do not collect gender information unless necessary (and I don't have a good example of when this might be, but someone might)

6) push back against laws and policies which discriminate against, or make life harder for, trans people. Write to your MP, and be vocal in your support.

#TransDayOfVisibility

@neil

re 5:

you're probably actually asking for pronouns or titles so you can address someone correctly in a invoice or email template. Ask for that directly, rather than asking what shape genitals they have, cos that's freaking weird dude.

Outside of medical or sex work contexts I can not think of a reason you really really need to know someone's gender.

"We need it for the advertising profile" isn't as good an excuse as you think it is. Splitting billions of people in to two buckets isn't an effective marketing strategy.

@mindpersephone @neil

> Outside of medical or sex work contexts I can not think of a reason you really really need to know someone's gender.

I didn't think of sex work contexts, but I was going to suggest that the medical context is only common context where I think knowing the gender and biological sex information is an absolute requirement (hormone effects on medication, birth control, etc etc)

Speaking as my employed-persona, it can help human data stewards with entity resolution, but it's really not a requirement (and isn't really, overly that helpful from a statistical pov because it's ~50/50 that it's mistakenly entered in the first place)

@feff @mindpersephone @neil but also note that a two or even three gender or sex choice might give you a lot of edge cases too that specifically hurt trans and intersex people. If you really want to know someone's hormonal state or if they have a specific organ it's probably more accurate to ask directly than to assume that all people who might reasonably pick woman have a uterus and an estrogen dominated endocrine system
@emilychwiggy I can at least say from the space that I work in that we have better data points than gender/sex and train our stewards to recognise trans and intersex cases where our matching engine fails or is unsure. We don't need to know the organs someone has as that's not our remit

@feff @mindpersephone

Pronouns, absolutely!

Medical stuff: happy to be told that I am wrong, but I'd have thought that gender was less relevant, than knowing which organs etc someone has, or what drugs they were on? (Ensuring that a trans woman with a prostate still gets offered screening, trans man with breasts etc.)

@neil @mindpersephone

I can't say for certain because I don't work in medical settings - but from an analyst perspective, knowing the proportion of patients with non-matching sex and gender can help policymakers ensure appropriate service provision and funding is in place (if we had a kinder government in place)

@feff @mindpersephone That makes sense!

@neil @feff @mindpersephone

For our Nuclear Energy Workers we collect gender info due to the possibility of pregnancy and the required lower radiation exposure during a pregnancy.

I have already changed the form from Male/Female to Assigned Gender at Birth.

I am going to float the idea of changing the form to a checkbox with the question, « Does the possibility of you becoming pregnant or breastfeeding exist? »

@Giamedin
Also the dose calculations depend on the presence of testicles or ovaries since they absorb radiation a bit differently.

I've been advocating to be specific e.g check boxes for "I have (piece of anatomy for which it is necessary to know)" because that cuts right to the importance and also avoids assumptions to help ensure correct dosimetry.

@neil @feff @mindpersephone
@pfriedma @Giamedin @neil @feff interesting. That's one area I was not aware of.
@Giamedin
That's good! Assigned gender at birth doesn't overlap perfectly with pregnancy.
@neil It'd be nice to have my hormone levels compared to healthy female ranges for a change, while still keeping an eye on PSA levels. So I'm in support of recording things like hormonal sex and indications of what sex-related organs to account for (or their absence, e.g. post-hysterectomy) in a medical context.
@feff @mindpersephone
@KatS @feff @mindpersephone Interesting! There's so much that I don't know :)
@neil @feff @mindpersephone To be clear, the hysterectomy was just the first example that leapt to mind. I've never qualified for that one :)

@neil @feff @mindpersephone (Non clinical NHS Wales employee, not speaking on behalf of any part of NHS Wales, part of my health board's queer working group)

You're right about gender being less relevant but for simplicity we use gender markers.

-----

Context and details: For NHS Wales, gender is an important marker (and age) because that's how we define the default inclusions for screening everyone (according to your GP record)

For trans people, you will by default be invited to get the same screening as your gender. You would then need to opt in and out of the appropriate screening based on your AGAB

(More info here: https://phw.nhs.wales/services-and-teams/screening/information-for-people-who-are-transgender-or-non-binary/)

GPs should be having a discussion with trans people when they change their gender marker if they're following https://www.gmc-uk.org/professional-standards/ethical-hub/trans-healthcare to cover screening and the alike

For then any other trans specific healthcare, that's handled by CAVUHB's Welsh Gender Service with dedicated experts to best support those people https://cavuhb.nhs.wales/our-services/welsh-gender-service/

----

It's one of those things which prob should be better handled with forms like GMS1W (form for joining a GP permanently) which still only have male and female markers on them.

Outside of non-binary markers, some do argue that it may be better from a confidentiality and equality view that only relevant bodies know of someone's trans status which does change how they provide that care, and otherwise treat trans men healthcare in the same manner as any other man (because they're men) with any medication in the same manner as regularly prescribed medication

----

That's a lot of text to describe why and hopefully that helps in some way, advocacy groups are pushing to improve this sorts of problems. One can hope it gets resolved soon.

@neil @feff @mindpersephone It's useful for surgeons to know when there's any large scale replumbing happening, mainly to ensure the correct equipment is available and any other specialists who may be needed in an emergency are given notice. We only had a couple of trans patients at my old gig but that's all the information was used for. Some procedures are very complex and surgeons are very much risk averse!

@mindpersephone @neil I can think of a couple of instances where knowing someone's gender can be useful or even a requirement:

1. Reporting purposes, e.g. gender pay gap (requirement in some jurisdictions, including the one I live in)

2. Insurance, where it can make a significant difference to pricing (though banned in some countries now)

@pwaring @neil

Ah yes. The reporting purposes, I'll allow for employment stuff, but that's no excuse for collecting info on your customers. Given that things need to be done to fix the mess that's been made already.
@mindpersephone @neil And even in a medical context, I need to know *why* the question is being asked, as "we need to know what your hormone levels were like as a teenager", "we need to know what your hormone levels are like now", "we need to know your genital structure" and "we need to know about your sex chromosomes" are all *different* questions, but all too often presented on forms as just "Sex (M/F): ...." or "Gender (M/F): ...."
@mindpersephone @neil where GDPR and GDPR inspired laws apply, people should take a look at Mousse c. SNCF as guidance for pronouns (https://curia.europa.eu/juris/documents.jsf?num=C-394/23).
RPEX

@mindpersephone @neil fair, interesting perspective

@mindpersephone @neil

The counterexample here is airlines, which need to know the gender as written in the gender-marker field of the passport. Some ask this directly, but an increasing number ask for title, from a short list of something like Mr, Ms, Mx. They also say that this must match what is written in the passport. The problem is, my passport explicitly says that my title is Doctor, which is not one of their options (and which is gender-neutral, so wouldn’t help with what they want).

The underlying advice of ‘ask for exactly what you have a legitimate reason to need’ still holds.

@david_chisnall @mindpersephone @neil Fun fact: Airlines *claim* they need the gender marker as written in the passport; but their systems can’t handle the X in my passport. I’ve literally had airline staff at the check-in desk ask me (very apologetically): “Our system only allows me to enter M or F. It doesn’t really matter, but … which of those do you prefer?”
@mindpersephone @neil also if you're considering having a child with someone... But, call me old-fashioned, but in that case you should probably take the time to get to know them well for many reasons.

@publicwondering @mindpersephone

Worth bearing in mind that this is in the context of:

> 5) if you control the design of forms and systems, do not collect gender information unless necessary

@neil @mindpersephone sorry yes, I'm going off topic.
@neil Thank you for the thread! I created a starter pack featuring Fediverse artists with shops. If you have any recommendations for new artists to add, please write to me https://fedidevs.com/s/OTcw/.
Fedi- Artists with shops (en) - Mastodon Starter Pack

Artists and other creative professionals who also run an online shop (primarily English speaking). Please send me submissions for this list.

@neil

Trans rights are human rights.
🤩

@neil what about the not so lovely trans people. Ahem. Like me.