@insecteuthanasia All operating systems are ableist as they are made with nondisabled people in mind. However, the question is which of them provides the best support or tech that allows disabled folks to access most features in the OS?

A lot of linux systems do not have accessibility tech (like screenreaders). It often lacks features for those that require visual or audio adjustments. Windows or Macs have some, but Disability community is still fighting for more accessibility within an OS.

@insecteuthanasia Now having said that, this isn't to say all linux OS are inaccessible. I found Ubuntu to have similar accessibility options to Windows, but the upkeep of those access options are not done well. Linux devs often fail to include the voices of disabled folks when determining features to implement. sometimes devs may belittle us if we try to bring up these issues. Why? Because devs aren't willing to examine their own biases.

We live in an ableist society and taught to be that way.

@insecteuthanasia Again, all OS systems suffer from ableism to some degree, but for disabled folks, Linux in particular can be like salt in a wound. We expected better from that community, and often we're left with scraps. We already deal with scraps from Windows and Macs.

Accessibility ought to be the core to any OS system as that would improve it for all people, not just disabled folks. But until we convince devs of that, OS systems will remain ableist to some degree.

@insecteuthanasia As for you being ableist for recommending linux? I wouldn't consider you so. I would consider your suggestion to be somewhat ignorant of the complexity regarding access with various OS systems. You reaching out to ask questions to better understand shows you care, so thank you for that.

I'm willing to chat more about it, but I'm out of energy now so need rest. So my replies may take a bit.

@Aaidanbird

also, would you mind if i boost these? i think its really informative and helpful!

@insecteuthanasia @Aaidanbird

Under system settings there's usually a section for accessibility (this way in OpenSUSE which I'm using at this moment). Basically, I don't need most of these enhancements, but I do increase the size of the cursor. There are also specific distros for accessibility. Orca is the screen reader for Linux.

@linuxgnome

@insecteuthanasia

Yes, there are some access programs. I'm not saying there isn't any. But most aren't built into the OS itself. They are addons. Also knowing which linux distros have access options is difficult at best, which also makes it inaccessible.

The problem I'm identifying is that Operating Systems haven't been built with access in mind. Most are built for nondisabled bodies and minds, and that's the problem. We need to push to change the approach to building OS's.

@linuxgnome

@insecteuthanasia

In the meantime, we also need:
1. Easily read and findable access guides to accessible linux OS.
2. Make access tech easily useable or easy to find and install for linux distros.
3. Create focus groups with disabled people present to collaborate on accessible features.
4. Bake access into future updates.
5. Craft better access features. (most offer bare min like windows if that) and highlight these to our community to show ways linux improves access.

@linuxgnome

@insecteuthanasia

Linux is working against a very negative image of being:
1. Elitist and for programmers mostly.
2. Requiring heavy and often inaccessible setup to install and operate.
3. Many different types that overwhelm those researching. Little to no guides written for nontechnical users.

To overcome that requires work and collaboration with disabled community. It's doable but difficult.

@Aaidanbird @insecteuthanasia

I'm an academic historian. I've been using Linux since 2003 and since 2005 only Linux (although I maintain my partner's Win system). I once tried to install Windows from scratch - so many hoops to go through just to get to installation. Anyone being an initial user with Linux should start with Mint. From there you can progress (I've been a distro hopper since 2005). It's all FUD. Linux is perfectly accessible now and doesn't track or compel you to use AI.
As to your other point, of course developers should consult people with disabilities, but there are specialist Linux distros out there.
There is a list of distros with features for accessibility with Orca pre-installed.
https://itsfoss.com/visual-impaired-linux/

@linuxgnome

@insecteuthanasia

Saying it is perfectly accessible now is highly dismissive of my comments and the experiences of disabled people. Thanks for the link.

I don't think how you define "accessible" is the same definition most of us in disabled community use.

Access isn't just ability to install an OS. There is other features and options required for usability that not all distros have or if they do, it's minimal or not built into it.

When I'm feeling better I may compile a list.