OK this is a stupid question, but why have Linux projects (apparently) fallen over themselves to comply with an age-recording statute in a single US state (albeit a large one), when those projects have been failing for decades to respect national and even international law regarding disability?
#accessibility #disability #linux #FreeSoftware #fascism #AgeVerification #infantilism
@DiogoConstantino @iaruffell In fact there are several. Europe has the European Accessibility Act:
The technical conformity definitions for this law are covered under EN 301 549:
https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/301500_301599/301549/03.02.01_60/en_301549v030201p.pdf
In the US there are a couple applicable laws. There's the rehabilitation act of 1973, most notably section 504 which prohibits denial of service on the basis of disability for federal programs and activities that receive federal funding.
There's also section 508 of the Americans' with Disabilities app which mandates all government websites and applications used internally be made accessible:
https://www.section508.gov/
And there is the CVAA which requires consumer digital communications and video equipment or apps be made accessible, enforced under the FCC via a civil complaint process:
https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/21st-century-communications-and-video-accessibility-act-cvaa
Then there is the Accessible Canada act
https://www.chrc-ccdp.gc.ca/individuals/accessibility/about-accessible-canada-act
Indian Rights of Persons with Disabilities act
https://cdnbbsr.s3waas.gov.in/s3e58aea67b01fa747687f038dfde066f6/uploads/2023/10/202310161053958942.pdf (they actually have three aplicable laws, this is just the most recent)
And so on.
The definitions of how to comply do varry and overlap somewhat, but many of them sight the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines as the gold standard
https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/wcag/
HTH! Surprised you didn't know any of this, some of these laws have been on the books for decades.
But the devs choose how to respond to the social, political or legal context. That is the whole point.
They may calculate that enforcement will be lax, or not be serious about Linux on the corporate or institutional desktop,or believe that disabled people lack resources, but all of that their action or inaction is a choice..
@iaruffell @prism That's a really bad point that puts developers, users and companies at risk, specially because we do know that some places FOSS companies are specifically being monitored for compliance of age verification laws, like in Brazil.
It's a choice, but it should only be for those who take the risks, who shouldn't be pressured by others into taking them, specially not with personal attacks saying they are not ethical if they comply with the Law.
@iaruffell @prism I'm pretty sure that proprietary software and big tech companies would be very happy with that outcome and even promote such escalation.
We need a strategy that is more than just knee-jerk reaction, that is inconsiderate of those who will suffer the consequences, and that will not take into consideration further likely actions/reactions.
@DiogoConstantino @prism You are not reading what I am saying.
I am saying that the devs have already, for decades, chosen to be non-compliant, when it comes to accessibility.
@DiogoConstantino
It's better to not use the word "crime" because there is criminal law and civil law, they are different but both kinds of law can be broken.
California's AB1043 is civil law, violating it can result is civil, not criminal, penalties.
You can create open source software that contains accessibility barriers but most businesses, government offices, schools, or other organizations may break various laws if they choose that software.
The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and The Rehabilitation Act of 1973 are both civil laws that have been updated to contain digital accessibility requirements.
California also has civil laws requiring digital accessibility in various contexts, including as an aspect of non-discrimination.
1. numbness
2. I never saw an accessibility mandate that makes it a crime to disregard, and that will result in strong prohibitions/blocks it like these age verifications laws make it. These are a much greater threat to not comply.
@prism @iaruffell I can give you two examples.
In Portugal, we have web accessibility mandates for government web sites, they are not followed on most cases, sometimes they even pretend to do follow to avoid loosing some of the financing, but there's no strong compliance checks, and no legal consequences are on the law for not following other than loosing some financing for the web site.
@prism @iaruffell this example is not about accessibility but open standards:
There's a mandate for the usage of open standards on state institutions (older than the EU Directive for the same purpose), there's no legal consequences on the law for not complying; therefore most institutions don't comply.
There is a larger issue, beyond tech, of when disability law is followed or enforced. That would be a long post!
as far as the OS is concerned, Apple, especially, and latterly Microsoft have sought to make their offerings accessible, precisely because they make money in corporate and institutional contexts subject to equality law. Apart from a push by GNOME a decade or so ago, there has been no collective buy-in among FLOSS developers.
1: What does this mean, "numbness?" "Complying with the law is hrd so we decided not to?"
2: Then you aren't looking very hard. From the EAA:
Here’s a list of the key penalties that might affect your business:
• One-time administrative fines ranging from €5,000 to €250,000+ per violation, depending on the severity of the issue.
• Ongoing daily fines up to €1,000 per day until the issue is resolved.
• The suspension of market access for non-compliant products and services until the issue is resolved.
The ADA also has enforced civil penalties, as does, well, every other law to ever exist. This being the nature of laws.
3: as I pointed out before, some of these laws are decades old, yet all I hear from the FOSS community is a bunch of fingerpunting and no action. These age verification laws are very new, some of them being actively fought in court or not even fully signed into law, yet here we see an instinctive response to jump for Palantir like a trained seal.
@prism @iaruffell the numbness that I observe is not so much a decision regarding complying or not, but not making a conscious decision and not taking much action.
It's considerate of others to not drop acronyms they many not know. So to those who don't know, EAA is the European Accessibility Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Accessibility_Act).
Fines don't necessarily mean crime, there are more types of law violations, in Portugal it's not a crime but the law defines fines.
@prism @iaruffell Also the requirements according to the EAA are relatively few.
By the way, I'm not defending this situation, I'm trying to explain why I see this being treated differently.
@DiogoConstantino @iaruffell I understand :)
We may have fallen victim to a linguistic error, if you mean crime as in criminal penalties as in jail time, the age verifications do not impose this either, as far as I am aware. Plus, developers have in the past made very public, principled stances on refusing to comply with various laws that have resulted with those people going to jail.
If not, I'm a bit puzzled. I think suspension from the marketplace is a pretty serious potential consequence any app developer would take seriously. I certainly wouldn't want to get fined thousands of dollars a day either! Regardless, this is broadly comparable with the penalties outlined for failure to comply with the various age verification laws.
So far all that is being proven is my original contention, which is that the situation is different only because developers care to enforce certain laws, AKA their personal priorities, over others.
@prism @iaruffell What each developer chooses to do to put him/herself into danger, it's only up to him/her to decide, I consider extremely unethical to demand them to put themselves in danger, if someone wants risks to be taken, that someone should do it him/herself.
I don't think they care in the sense of believing these laws is the correct path, some may, others just don't want to take the risk, of harming themselves or their users (via non-compliance blocks).
I am not sure what you mean by that: that we should ask more nicely?
Sure, there are various political responses to both issues, but actually leaving it up to the individual leads to them being picked off, and is ineffective (cf climate action). There is both greater security and greater effect in collective action.
Hence, major projects need to show leadership
Non-compliance can be, and has been, used as one tactic, both in the tech and non-tech world..
@iaruffell @prism I'm saying not being polite and mindful will not gain anything for sure, and while we can be persistent we should try to gain allies, not make others more resistant to our fair causes.
Has I explained, non-compliance will at this stage likely have more negative impacts than not. The possibility of a tactic doesn't make it a good tactic.
@DiogoConstantino @iaruffell I'm not demanding anything. I am stating a point of mutual agreement, which is that developers choose the extent to which they wish to comply with any law. They do so on the basis of what matters most to them. In this case, even though the potential consequences are broadly the same, and far less clear than the already established accessibility law, certain people are now rushing to prioritize the needs of surveillance capitalism over their users.
Clearly the law is being used as a shield, deployed when it suits them and discarded when it no longer does. Spending time to implement a field, but not (for example) adjusting the font size in the boot menu, is a choice they made. Nothing more or less. It's a choice we see made by FLOSS developers every day. Which makes us stay far away from FLOSS projects.
They can choose differently. Tomorrow. Today. Right now.
Isabel Ruffell
Diogo Constantino
Drew Mochak
sidereal
Curtis Wilcox