Mastodawn

Isabel Ruffell 1d ago

OK this is a stupid question, but why have Linux projects (apparently) fallen over themselves to comply with an age-recording statute in a single US state (albeit a large one), when those projects have been failing for decades to respect national and even international law regarding disability?

#accessibility #disability #linux #FreeSoftware #fascism #AgeVerification #infantilism

Diogo Constantino 1d ago

@iaruffell it's not true that it's on a single USA state, more countries are approving laws like this, and Brasil has since last week one that is in force. Also California is not just any state, that's probably where much of the business for FOSS companies is, so are a lot of the developers, and so are a lot of the users. There's nothing to be gaining by loosing all of that. The fight is at the legislatures and court level, will be won by making FOSS illegal for large parts of the world.

Drew Mochak 1d ago

@DiogoConstantino @iaruffell Sorry but are there not relevent accessibility laws that are also not specific to a certain state or country? In fact they have been around much longer, so if anything, accessibility should be a higher priority.

Diogo Constantino 22h ago

@prism @iaruffell can you mention one that is not being followed? Or that would be a crime not to follow? or that would impact as many people? While I personally agree, it's not us who set the priority, neither are the developers.

Drew Mochak 21h ago

@DiogoConstantino @iaruffell This is a curious statement. Who does set the priority of a free and open source project, if not the developer? Is that not the whole point?

Diogo Constantino 14h ago

@prism @iaruffell sometimes it's, other times, because we live in society, it's societal mechanisms such as the state.

Isabel Ruffell 12h ago

@DiogoConstantino @prism

But the devs choose how to respond to the social, political or legal context. That is the whole point.

They may calculate that enforcement will be lax, or not be serious about Linux on the corporate or institutional desktop,or believe that disabled people lack resources, but all of that their action or inaction is a choice..

Diogo Constantino 12h ago

@iaruffell @prism That's a really bad point that puts developers, users and companies at risk, specially because we do know that some places FOSS companies are specifically being monitored for compliance of age verification laws, like in Brazil.

It's a choice, but it should only be for those who take the risks, who shouldn't be pressured by others into taking them, specially not with personal attacks saying they are not ethical if they comply with the Law.

Diogo Constantino

@iaruffell @prism we should also be aware that non-compliance would also likely result in stuff like reduced, rollback of adoption of FOSS in schools, public institutions in general, and places were regulation and compliance takes a very active stance. And I belive it would ultimately lead to further escalation of legal requirements, like blocking downloads of FOSS, and possibly even forbidding FOSS (in many places they are already trying to forbid VPN).

Diogo Constantino 12h ago

@iaruffell @prism I'm pretty sure that proprietary software and big tech companies would be very happy with that outcome and even promote such escalation.

We need a strategy that is more than just knee-jerk reaction, that is inconsiderate of those who will suffer the consequences, and that will not take into consideration further likely actions/reactions.

Isabel Ruffell 12h ago

@DiogoConstantino @prism You are not reading what I am saying.

I am saying that the devs have already, for decades, chosen to be non-compliant, when it comes to accessibility.

Drew Mochak 11h ago

@DiogoConstantino @iaruffell considering the proprietary companies you're talking about spend millions of dollars on compliance with these laws, you're probably correct.

Drew Mochak 11h ago

@DiogoConstantino @iaruffell as I said before, this is also the case for accessibility law, except you see a whole lot of action in one space and none whatsoever in the other. There's a reason for that.

sidereal 6h ago

@DiogoConstantino @iaruffell @prism Doesn’t having inaccessible software, which is also countrary to several laws, also prevent FOSS adoption? You haven’t made a single point about age verification that doesn’t also apply to accessibility

Diogo Constantino 6h ago

@sidereal @iaruffell @prism I've never seen laws about accessible software that make it a crime to not be accessible, and that's a big difference.

Curtis Wilcox 4h ago

@DiogoConstantino
It's better to not use the word "crime" because there is criminal law and civil law, they are different but both kinds of law can be broken.

California's AB1043 is civil law, violating it can result is civil, not criminal, penalties.

You can create open source software that contains accessibility barriers but most businesses, government offices, schools, or other organizations may break various laws if they choose that software.

The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and The Rehabilitation Act of 1973 are both civil laws that have been updated to contain digital accessibility requirements.

California also has civil laws requiring digital accessibility in various contexts, including as an aspect of non-discrimination.

https://www.dor.ca.gov/Home/Laws

@sidereal @iaruffell @prism

Diogo Constantino 4h ago

@cwilcox808 @sidereal @iaruffell @prism I intentionally use the word crime here. California's law it's not the only law about this. Do you know more countries exist?