OmegaI want more spaces that don't allow cis men. :/
https://piefed.blahaj.zone/c/womensstuff/p/646180/i-want-more-spaces-that-don-t-allow-cis-men
UPDATE: So with all the responses I got, I’m gonna be honest, I kinda deeply regret making this post and I don’t think I’m gonna be active in this community anymore. I don’t think I’m gonna be really active on this account much anymore either at all for that matter. I’m sorry that I made this post, I should have kept this to myself.
Lady Butterfly she/herHey Omega I just saw this post tonight sorry for not giving you support earlier. It’s a real shame this post has been negative for you, it’s given a voice to a lot of members and it’s got a lot of interesting chatter going, but the main thing is how you feel about it. It was your post, and your feelings matter the most. We’ve got your back whether you stay with us or not… I don’t want to invade your privacy by DM you but you’re 100% welcome to DM me if that would help you feel secure here heart ❤️
dandelion (she/her)Yeah, Lemmy seems to have a misogyny problem, and it’s really sad to me, and even seems unnecessary (like, it’s one small step from the community’s otherwise general egalitarian views to also include gender egalitarianism; you would think self-described leftists would be more feminist and less misogynist).
I completely hear you about men being creepy, denying your experience, assuming you know nothing and talking down to you, etc.
I also hear you about how Nazism and other right-wing ideologies attract predominantly men - it’s not just you, it’s actually backed by the data, particularly young women are far more likely to be left-leaning and young men are far more likely to be right-leaning.
I tend to think this has more to do with influencers and who is targeting young men as a demographic than anything inherent in the ideology (though maybe it’s easier to use right-wing arguments to appeal to men’s insecurities and frustrations than left-wing ones, I don’t know). In general I tend to think people are irrational in their religious and political views and find it easy to rationalize acceptance of an ideology or religion that victimizes them (e.g. see women and Christianity).
an aside about trans menI intuitively understand what you’re saying about trans men being better and this being a cis man problem (because I think trans men often can be better, maybe due to their past), but in the end they’re dudes like any other, and there are plenty of toxic trans men. For example, a significant portion of the detransitioners and anti-trans activists are trans men, just off the top of my head: Buck Angel, Chloe Cole, Sage Blair, and Aaron Kimberly are all trans men (or “ex-trans”) who are conservative anti-trans activists. So while my personal experience IRL with trans men are mostly positive, I think we should remain aware that trans men are just as capable of being toxic, and at the end of they day they too are just men.
James R KirkLemmy is just software, if your instance isn’t banning misogyny immediately on sight then that’s a moderation problem. I’m not saying you’re doing this, but I don’t think we should let instance owners off the hook for what happens on their platforms.
prettybunnysan aside about trans men
and at the end of they day they too are just men.
huh. well. this is some progressive ass stereotyping lmao
Hexarei
apotheotic (she/her)Man I wish misandry existed
Edit: insofar as I wish for a world where women have enough structural power for misandry to even be considered in the same ballpark of meaning as misogyny
The only thing I can think of is parental leave not being equally and widely available for all. Like yeah the birth giver does most of the work, but parenting should be something done by all parents, not just one.
Likewise the shaming of men for sharing their mental health issues. Though that’s often between men. I always tell my guy friends to speak out if something bad happens.
Misandry often is ironically still perpetuated mostly by other men who don’t want to understand, nor who want to work on it. The power dynamics is a large part of the problem.
yeah, I was going to say - patriarchy ironically is the biggest source of misandry - it perpetuates norms about men being predators, blames them as a category for the crimes of a minority, and distributes power unevenly among men participating in the oppression of men through class and race differences, etc.
I don’t really want to imply we should stereotype either way (sorta the same with cis men, tbh - there are bad men, there are good men, there are men who are both; I’m not going to pretend it’s not complicated) … but it is a good reminder that trans men are just men and there are plenty of shitty trans men.
I mean the whole point of this is we’re othering men … right
Like. This is a “I dislike the other” post.
I don’t think so, this is more like a venting / frustration post over bad experiences with men, and a statement of relief and gratitude for safe spaces.
You don’t have to twist that into strict “othering”, even if that’s often how that goes in practice.
I would prefer we hold both as true - that we don’t invalidate women’s experiences with men, but that we also recognize that those bad experiences are not absolute or guaranteed with every man. I see no reason we can’t be mature and recognize the compatibility for both truths here.
I don’t intend to say we shouldn’t complain or ought not or that complaining in and of itself id bad, just I find the space to give me the ick when that starts to become the theme. Idk if that makes sense?
Maybe I’m being reactive and being anxious about the discourse changing, but some of the comments in here have given that ick.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to feel anxious about this turning into a toxic space where generalizations and othering are common, because tbh I think that’s usually how it goes. Victims often generalize, I think it’s part of the fear and survival response to constantly be looking for similar patterns and anticipate threats - so to some extent I even think this is hardwired.
Not that every bad interaction with a man results in PTSD-like symptoms or anything, but some of those bad interactions do turn out that way. I’ve been inappropriately touched by a man and once I was in a safe place my body started to shake uncontrollably, and I assume based on that, that I had some kind of trauma response from my experience. I just assume this experience is going to make it harder for me to trust men, esp. men who remind me of the person who victimized me.
I definitely think as a culture we have to find a path to both validate women’s experiences, but also not let that turn into dehumanizing rhetoric based on inappropriate generalization. It’s admittedly hard to do both.
Yeah, the misogyny problem on lemmy is annoyingly bad
Tap for spoilerOn trans men they’re men who happen to be trans. I love so many of my brothers in transness. But also I’ve had my fair share of trans guys just being guys, especially when the topic of transmisogyny comes up. And like, ultimately, that’s also how I feel about cis men in general as well. I acknowledge that the offering of patriarchy for the average cis man is a raw deal, I acknowledge that life’s rough for everyone and many cis men are awesome and many people who aren’t suck. But sometimes I need spaces away from men, and it can be very easy to extend that to resentment.
yes, I have a nephew who just announced his transition through a meme talking about how he will man-splain and be unrepentant about it (to be fair, probably just intended as a joke, but it was a joke that bothered some women in the family), and ironically since he has transitioned he has become far more dismissive and a lot less willing to listen … I’m not certain this is because of his transition alone, but it’s an interesting coincidence …
I get the same kind of ick in these spaces when they’re used to blanket complain about an entire group of people as I do when they’re talking about “females”
You do you though.
It’s easy to draw a parallel between that and this when you ignore the power dynamic at play
I totally see where you’re coming from, and it really sucks that the loudest and worst offenders online are almost always presenting as men. I often find that women’s and queer spaces IRL are so much more inviting and less aggressive than general admission spaces.
Since this is a public post, I just want to say to the men lurking that this is a vent post and so it says “all” a lot, but please try to see that she’s expressing hurt and not intending this as an attack or an expression of hatred for men. 🙏
to be honest I think it’s only a minority of men who are a real problem - but they’re numerous enough that it makes it hard to know who is safe or not, and even among the safe ones I think there can be some behaviors that can easily come across the wrong way (like, it’s a fine line between being helpful and mansplaining, for example)
It might be true that a “minority of men who are a real problem” but there’s also a minority of allies. I think the largest segment of men just go with the flow. They’ll laugh at a sexist joke if the majority are laughing or stay silent if the majority stay silent. I’ve seen some real allies shut down misogynistic comments here on Lemmy, and it’s really heartening. They get downvoted for it, but they shut down the circle jerk. I think it’s because they’re men signaling disapproval. The other guys might not like it, but they listen. I think Gen Z will not be quite as progressive as I was hoping, but I’m really hoping the next gen will tip us over the edge and we’ll hit a critical mass of allies so that men are less confident being openly misogynistic.
You’re right, and I think the minority of allies is much smaller than the minority of problem men, too. To be honest I don’t know a lot of male allies (and one of the biggest ones I know IRL is a trans man).
I have little hope for future generations without a path forward for education and impacting positive change in society - and as far as I can tell at least the US is significantly sliding backwards on those fronts. It would be nice to think the future will be more progressive, but I have concerns and doubts.
Additionally, to the men that read it, and understand why it’s necessary, y’all cool, might be handy to head to spaces like [email protected] - there should be more inclusive spaces like this one, really. Having more spaces ≠ exclusion; there are plenty general spots as well.
On that regard, those general spaces can be nice, but I think it’s because they have a focus on queer peeps (eg. [email protected], or because they coordinate with queer spaces. Those tend to kick out the annoying people more actively.
I’m a mod myself on [email protected] and [email protected] , but yeah.
Dad for a Minute - Lemmy.World
If you need encouragement, advice or just a hug this is the right community for you. Your “dad for a minute” is here to help. Moms are welcome too. Note that this is an inclusive community. Everyone is welcome. Twin communities you might be interested in - [email protected] [/c/[email protected]] For Women Stuff - [email protected] [/c/[email protected]] For wholesome content Rules No hate speech, discrimination, insults. Just be a nice internet user.
You’re right and you’re valid for saying it
Being in FLINTA spaces is so fucking awesome and cozy and safe. Its easier, its less energy, it doesn’t fill me with anxiety.
FLINTA? I’m picturing something from the Flintstones but I’ve no idea what the abbreviation means
“Frauen, Lesben, Intergeschlechtliche, nichtbinäre, trans und agender Personen”, meaning women, lesbians, intersex, non-binary, trans and agender people.
It has made its way to being used in the UK queer/kink circles at least, and I like the term!
just to be clear, [email protected] is a women-only community that allows trans, non-binary, agender, etc. folks decide whether they feel they belong in a women’s group
(as opposed to a “women + others” group)
I know! I love this space for that :) my mentioning of FLINTA spaces wasn’t in contrast to this space, rather sharing that I love FLINTA spaces in relation to the OP’s desire for more spaces without cis men
oh, that makes sense - sorry for misreading you, I was confused and thought [email protected] was being viewed as a FLINTA space.
Thanks for teaching me about FLINTA as a term and concept, too - that’s helpful to know!
You’re welcome sis!