Mindaugas Rudokas5d ago

RE: https://mastodon.social/@marioguzman/116239203358031852

I’m starting to get conspiratorial about this.

@gruber was like:

> everyone I’ve spoken to is happy — if not downright giddy — at the news that Lemay is replacing Dye

@markgurman now:

> haven’t been able to find any evidence suggesting there were designers internally opposed to [Liquid Glass] during development.

So what was the source of that giddyness then, if not the shitty direction, bad job? Just Dye’s personality or something? How to square this?

Jonathan 5d ago
Show threadJohn Gruber
@mrudokas @markgurman @marioguzman No need for conspirational thinking. “Liquid Glass” isn’t the problem. If you could just swap in a new “theme” for MacOS Tahoe, the horrendous UI problems would remain. They’re separate from the visual appearance of the “theme”. The problem isn’t the Liquid Glass trees, it’s the overall state of the forest, especially on the Mac.
Mar 16 at 11:06pmIvory for Mac
Show threadMario Guzmán5d ago

@gruber @mrudokas @markgurman Funny you say this because I feel like I actually need to start stating. When I say Liquid Glass, I mean all of the UX on the OS. I guess I need to make that clear from now on.

I fully understand the updates they recently made were merely a "fresh coat of paint" when they also needed to update layouts and interactions.

(The way that Aqua wasn't just a coat of paint over Mac OS 9.)

Show threadMindaugas Rudokas5d ago
@gruber @marioguzman Yep, by LG we usually mean whole design system, not the material. And Gurman’s piece portrays like nobody inside Apple Design has voiced any concerns about any issues while developing it. I want to believe, that it’s not just us, outies, yelling at the clouds, getting through various stages of anger and grief. The reshuffle sparked hopes for UX recovery, I would hate to know that Lemay had no problems with this DS, and basically nothing has changed.
Show threadSteve Barnes5d ago

@marioguzman, @gruber, @mrudokas –

I think that's always been true. All the dev talks last June made a distinction between the (lowercase) "new design," and (uppercase) "Liquid Glass," the material. Tragically, the non-critical seem to mistakenly think the critical were mainly unhappy with the material, which is the fault of the critical.

I respect the material, but some of its (presumably refinable) shapes and placements on the Mac grate every day. (Not to mention menu glyphs, et cetera.)

Show threaddmd5d ago

@Starfia @marioguzman @gruber @mrudokas I noticed the distinction also, but this is yet another problem of Apple's own making. It was entirely predictable that the general public, and even most developers, would fail to notice that distinction. I can't imagine what possible justification they had for it.

(As with many things lately. Not least of which because they do not deign to share such justifications with us any more.)

Show threadMindaugas Rudokas5d ago

@dmd @Starfia @marioguzman @gruber I have not seen this being a significant issue. If there would have been many misunderstandings, the language would have evolved accordingly.

When critiques are going around, they are always about particular aspects and issues, there is enough context.

And when something travels out of the bubble or context is missing, it is easier to just correct the misunderstanding, than to use “the new Liquid Glass design language” term in each message.

Show threadThom Bullock5d ago
@gruber it really took a wrong turn with Big Sur. Tahoe took some more wrong turns, but it’s been in a bad way for a while now.