Wondering if any #ActuallyAutistic or #ADHD people have ideas that I'm missing.
My day job is supporting disabled university students. We have increasing numbers of autistic/ADHD students who are too anxious to attend classes. So they miss class 1, and then can't understand content of classes 2 onwards so get more anxious - and it spirals.
It's HUGE uni, often 100+ in class. Most buildings are HUGE, with vile acoustics and visual stress - can't change those. We do have quiet/sensory spaces.
We are not a remote course provider, that's legally and regulatorily a completely different service.
I have no authority to condone absence. Low-attenders get nagging emails which I can't stop.
Often tutors are AMAZING, they will really try and help with some extra 1:1 support, but there's hard limits on that due to workload/student-numbers. Tutors are frustrated cos student wants 1:1 of what was IN class (which isn't fair on them)
Studes often already use noise cancelling headphones etc.
I worry some students are coming to uni cos they feel they have to, and really aren't ready for it. academic and other colleagues and I often wish younger students could have a few years working first, and time to decide what they want to do, not what mum/dad/school push for.
Further Education have government metrics pushing university. Universities are on the hard sell to recruit.
I'm often astonished by students who haven't visited campus before signing up, even when they live locally...
@t54r4n1 I agree about not visiting in advance, I think part of it is due to social deprivation their families don't know this is a good idea and I do feel pre-uni students are babied so they aren't taught how to take initiatives (I blame their adults)...
And yes, being withdrawn from course is a huge risk for several right now, with expensive consequences.
Some tutors/depts do do "what to expect" and handbooks. I often find the anxious-non-attenders haven't looked for or read them 😬 ...
One issue is the government in England keep shitting on universities and cutting sources of funding, so the universities are DESPERATE for student numbers.
We are SUPPOSED to have enhanced monitoring and 90% attendance requirement for a student on repeat year (studes used to sign an agreement), but it doesn't happen or work now.
I know personal (pastoral) tutors contact every student several times a term. The non-attenders routinely don't attend 1:1 or group personal tutorials...
We try to contact studes before they start but their response rate is low.
We offer a mostly-autism focused summer school - with 2 days on campus trialling classes and staying overnight in halls. I think it's a yr too late tho!
School/college are in loco-parentis so disability support is "done to them" and Parents are legally responsible.
Uni treats studes like legal adults. so they're told "Hi, you told us you're disabled, please do A + B + C to get support"
Studes are told once a term how to get support if they have a disclosed disability and no support plan on the system.
Even when we create a support plan and email to offer more support, response rates are low.
Tutors have often signposted to us over and over again.
Our MH team will only accept direct student registering unless emergency. MHT reasoning is that unless student engages directly, their support doesn't work (while harsh, they may have a point)...
Seems like the way the system works, you have only small opportunities for leverage against the mighty powers of avoidance and overwhelm!
Would they click through to watch videos do you think? I'm imagining things like "here's a video tour of this lecture theatre with nobody in it and how to find your way there, you can/can't choose where you sit, most people take notes on a laptop, some people prefer paper, here's a clip or a photo from during a lecture", "hi we are the people you can talk to, here are some typical things which people talk to us about".
Also anything which makes it easier to ask for help - like a form with check boxes "please email me / please text me / I need X / Y / I'm not even sure what I need" versus the peril of I Have To Write An Email :-)
Or does that sound like stuff that already exists and doesn't work?
That's a good idea re video tours. I'll try pushing for that again or suggesting it to some course tutors who might be up for it... Esp on arts courses with a lot of ND students.
For context of how Stupid the uni can be, I've been asking NICE estates people for a flat plan of each floor of buildings #2-7 cos we have one of #1 and it's really useful... But no, they want Google Earth style whizzy wossname... That no one will fund...
I know tutors are using Teams messages with some success, but by the time student is in anxious-withdraw mode, they don't respond to that either. We're limited on how most tutors are permitted to communicate e.g. email/teams only cos safeguarding and boundaries reasons. Some depts don't let tutors phone frex.
I often find the tutors have done really cool creative stuff, but it's in-person. I dunno if some more stuff pre-admission would help or not, till we try it.
Yeah my intuition from what you've said is that even if it's logistically tricky to give them stuff before they arrive, that's also the point of highest leverage, because of getting people off to a good start. Like "get in before anything's gone wrong and multiplied the anxiety"!
A couple of other things that occur to me now:
1. Buddy systems - does that exist? perhaps involving students from the year above as hosts of small meetups in the first week, or saying hello online beforehand? If it weren't too much of a time investment, you could make a quiz about what they're into (distinct from their course, things like music or Pokemon or fandom) and assemble groups of 3 or 4 newbies based on that? Then they've potentially got someone to walk in to lectures with, which is much less daunting than having to turn up by yourself. And anything linking the previous year's students gives them another avenue for getting advice/info.
2. Caitlin whom I currently work with had a past project at Liverpool John Moores where students started the first year with a module identifying things like what learning styles came natural to them & what environment they needed to be successful, and it worked really well. To copy that full-on would need more buy-in from tutors than you can probably get, but I wonder if there might be elements you could nab. I could ask Caitlin where's a good write-up of what they did. (I know I've seen a video about this project, can't find it now.)
@unchartedworlds @t54r4n1 I know our tutors have been asking for years for intro to academic skills and getting to know you stuff to have higher prominence in year 1, but keep getting fobbed off.
Our new leadership team are dictatorial and clueless. They're also v patronising to front line people, I missed a meeting where top bod lectured an academic asking Qs about the new education strategy, on how to teach, rather than answer the question. We've had multiple increase in demand on /1
@unchartedworlds @t54r4n1 on academics with limited notice or resource. Things like adding multiple new assessment periods without recognition each one takes umpty hours more work. It's v difficult to ask academics to do more, cos many are exhausted which is in sick leave and departure spiral, loading more onto remaining.
I'm hoping they'll provide me with an accessible education policy so I can see what's happening. But the current PDF is riddled with the distorted font which I can't read.
@Pomegranatepirate *nods* I think this is a good idea and I know one of our sister teams runs an ADHD-workshop over 4-6 weeks where I believe the students do a mix of strategy discussion and meet others with ADHD. Sadly it doesn't run enough.
One issue we have is many studes are very anxious about meeting new people and become avoidant about that. Buddying is a good idea but I know the uni won't invest in the necessary resource for it, including matching students carefully without siloing them.
@NatalyaD I forget who it was who recently pointed out that the main purpose of college is to prove to potential employers that you are able to show up somewhere consistently for four years, and you won't just flake on them if they hire you.
The problem is that doing anything consistently is nearly impossible for folks with #adhd, so the entire experience is tortuous.
@mikemccaffrey Yeah. We have 2 extra time options although we've actually stopped automatically giving the 2nd one to ADHDrs without a conversation first cos sometimes extending deadlines just kicks the last-minute can down the road and other problems.
Our mentors can sometimes provide a kind of regular accountability which helps some folk with ADHD if they can agree a good work-plan. Also things like study-locations e.g. library to get into study mindset, or body doubling ideas.
@mikemccaffrey And universities are really lax about attendance. 80 or 90% is considered good, but in a workplace that would be grounds for dismissal.
I think some ADHDrs do well at uni, especially on ND-friendly courses like music and arts (where I'm sure many of the teaching staff are autistic/ADHD/dyslexic themselves) but others seem to be stymied by this severe anxiety issue.
Time management is another issue. Especially if students no longer have parents to wake & chivvy them at uni.
@NatalyaD You mentioned 1:1 tutoring sessions, but I wonder if it's possible to do small groups, say 1:3, to help ease some of the strain on the resources you're able to provide.
Would recording lectures fall under the same regulations as remote? Perhaps replayed to a small group of students or for individual students, not online but on campus. The recording is available for a set number of days.
I was lucky to land in art school long before discovery, so most of my classes were in studios with small groups where most of the time was spent creating, with just one art history auditorium class per semester. I was that student who sat near the front and responded when the prof threw out questions.
(No, I was not popular 🙃)
@StaceyCornelius The tutoring is usually government funded so currently not restricted except that the student has to apply and go through a process (we can help but not DO it for them legally).
I am aware of some ADHD-specific workshops run by our MH team which I managed to refind the link for (our intranet search is useless) and will be sharing with ADHDrs (but some only officially have autism). I would like to see more of this resourced and will try and find out more.
/1
@StaceyCornelius The other issue is practical courses and non-attendance, art classes and workshops aren't very suitable to recording.
If students have skills workshops or "training to use equipment before they can use it for assessments" then they HAVE to attend in person and at the scheduled times because that's when the materials, equipment and staff are available to do that thing.
I've also had studes with temp permission to remote-attend experience MH deterioration which wasn't spotted.
@NatalyaD Hmm, yes. This disjointed care situation sounds painfully familiar although not from my university experience.
I agree with you about timing. And knowing exactly why they're in uni is important. "Mum and Dad want me to" isn't necessarily helpful in the long run.
A large university must make this so difficult. You can't build a community of care (for anyone facing challenges) in that context.
So many people have been seduced by the promise of "just watch a video" but of course that's not enough. One missed lecture, maybe. But not a whole semester.
I was lucky that my art school was small, and I was there before it began turning into a bureaucracy. I attended a much larger, more conventional uni for academics and electives, but did it through their theatre department, which was housed in its own building. A much better learning experience all round.
I salute you for all your hard work and advocating for your people.
@StaceyCornelius *nods* To be fair our arts courses are quite small but our buildings are still largely a sensory nightmare.
I think sometimes my colleagues and I do blame ourselves when stuff doesn't work out cos we're inherently people who want to care for others and fix stuff.
It;s always hard trying to explain to people who haven't worked in universities how uniquely batshit they can be in ways only universities can be batshit.
@NatalyaD Ah of course, I wasn't immediately thinking of attendance as I was focused on accessibility.
I worked at a uni for a couple of years. Totally understand the quicksand of politics. It's frustrating.
@StaceyCornelius Physical impairment and attendance is an issue too, but is more tangible in that we can offer government grants for taxi travel. And where they REALLY can't attend we do have to talk to students about whether they should move to a uni that does more remote delivery.
I am on the academics' side, hybrid is worst of all worlds and in-person is not the same as a remote-delivered course in all structural ways. I think young naive students just assume a recording is all they need.
@StaceyCornelius I've been trying to talk to students about how the reason they pay £££ fees a year (and rack up scary loans) is that our uni offers them should be better than what they could do with YouTube and free online tutorials.
And if students don't feel that what we offer is right for them and what they want, then consider their options and don't just stay cos changing your mind is hard... It might be another course or uni is better, or it might be they need not to be in uni atm.
@Pomegranatepirate I think in many cases they're on this conveyor belt from school/further-education to university. Many believe if they start uni even a year late they will NEVER get a job.
My colleagues and I often say we wish some students would go and work for a few years, and only come to university when they have worked out what they want from it, pick a suitable and realistic course, engage properly (turn up to classes, read the stuff you're given, invest time in learning) etc.
@NatalyaD you have a typo in that first hashtag BTW, which I only mention in case someone is following the hashtag. I have thoughts about this, but I think it ultimately depends on a few things.
What is causing that initial anxiety about going to class? Is "going there" the problem or is "being there" the problem? Is there a way for attending students to go back and find information they missed? Can they make recordings? Do the slides get published? etc.
Also, I think you're right that a lot of students go to university because "That's what people do", or because that's what their parents want. I know AutDHD can make information absorption more difficult but it can also just murder the motivation to learn. So I think it's important to identify whether the students do have a reasonable way to access the information they missed and are just struggling to find motivation, or whether there is a genuine barrier to information access.
Sorry for the premature send; that's what using a keyboard gets me, I guess.
@simon I really don't know what causes the initial anxiety. I often only come across the student 3-6 months in.
I would like us to do an auto-buddying system like Cambridge does. A named yr3 student is linked to each named yr1 student for the entire term and meets them in Fresher's week. That might help, unless students don't click...
50% of the time the student has a disability plan but didn't respond to any pre-communication. 50% of the time student didn't tell anyone they were disabled.
@simon Slides are published online before classes hopefully and we JUST started lecture recording this year (introduced 10 days before term started so it's partial as the tech and training for staff is a clustermuck).
The issue is a lot of our courses are practical. So fine art, engineering, jewellery or clock horology stuff. Those are lethal if a student misses classes as they miss the "how to do X skill" and can't just catch up by video/slides later.
@simon I am going to ask the next few students I chat to "what is making you anxious" and try and dig into that more.
A lot of the time so far the answers are "I want to do it but can't make myself leave home" "I'm late so I can't go into class cos I'm late" and while we work on punctuality strategies and so on, they still have to do the work.
The lack of immediate consequence might be an issue. At school, a single missed day without a note is A Big Deal. Unis can't work like that.
@simon Thanks that's a really interesting post and thoughts.
I know some of the students are never late for paid jobs cos the consequences are huge, but that comes at cost of Very High Anxiety/burnout to achieve.
I worry for the newly recognised ADHDrs especially, they hope/expect meds will be magic. I am routinely saying "you may be lucky and find magic, or you may find meds are somewhere between useless and partially helpful".
Most of our studes can get MH/ADHD/autism focused coaching...
@simon Coaching/mentoring (we use the word mentor) is something I try and encourage them to engage with (if we can find the right mentor) but again they have to show up to sessions (if they cancel more than twice a term, our government halts their funding).
The mentoring is about the strategies and trying to break what I am calling the anxiety-spiral.
I wish some of these studes wouldn't keep doing new years/courses till they nail the motivation cos that gets expensive faily too.
@simon I certainly have ideas from these discussions so far that I will try and throw upwards or look at with my students. And recognise my limits so I don't burnout on 1 student at the cost of the other 6 in my waiting list etc.
I can't actually read our university's brand new Education Strategy because they insist on using an intentionally visually-distorted branding font all over it despite promising not to use it in PDFs...
@magnolia It is so tricky cos part-time study is really not popular even though I think many students would benefit from it. The system isn't set up to allow part-time study with enough money not to have to work. Heck, a lot of our full-time students have to work a lot of paid hours just to get by due to loans not keeping up with cost of living.
And many who don't work have MASSIVE family responsibilities which can either be impossible to avoid, or a source in themselves of 'legit avoidance'.
@NatalyaD college was a challenge…obsessed way too much on what I was wearing, my routine to class and how to navigate the halls and where to sit, and what people to avoid or try to connect with…well before social media… I cannot imagine the stress these students are contending…and actually learning and doing assignments would be very low priority on the list.
If there was a way for them to dip their toes into the class material, small homework groups, or something that did not feel like a huge production or lots of up front friction or effort just to absorb something that’s not running at their pace….the idea an ass has to be in a certain chair or room to learn is ludicrous.
I had to take an accounting class 3 times …first two times they covered the material as a class with a transparency or fuzzy projector I could not absorb or keep up with… third time I killed the class b/c the textbook that year came with a floppy disk with a self paced practice program I could run at home.
NatalyaD
paramilitary organizer
Jennifer Moore 😷
Pomegranate Pirate 🏳️🌈🏴☠️
Mike McCaffrey
Stacey Cornelius 🇨🇦
Simon Jaeger
Bloomnolia 
~\ 
\ >