Etienne
KhrysRT if you want a CLEAR statement about AI from all GNU/Linux distributions and are ready to quit any distribution that is ok with integrating AI slopware.
dallo@Khrys
Since I read that systemd is going to include slop, a lot of them is concerned
@Khrys
Btw if you didn't see it yet, there is a list of projects that pledged not to use AI or are disrupting it https://noai.starlightnet.work/list.html
Btw if you didn't see it yet, there is a list of projects that pledged not to use AI or are disrupting it https://noai.starlightnet.work/list.html
nabnux
John Faithfull 🌍🇪🇺🏴🧡✊🏻✊🏿
Dan Hatton
GoodNewsGreyShoes🔞(on hiatus)Still blows me away that *thirty years* of pushback hasn't been enough to convince the community maintaining GIMP that naming their software after a common ableist slur - for no good reason - was a bad idea that severely hampers its growth, engagement, & accessibility, not only back then, but even now & ever onward.😮💨
I hate that the discomfort of admitting they were wrong matters more than the pain their choice caus[ed/es].😞
@GoodNewsGreyShoes @dallo @Khrys
Must confess I wasn't aware of the term as an ableist slur - I thought the list compilers were just bashful about its BDSM meaning.
Alexia 
@only_ohm @dallo @Khrys Totally fair! We all have to learn before we can know - no one is born with it, or should be blamed for not being given it.😉
What bothers me (as in this case) is when people learn something that ought to change how they act & think - as a result of their stated values - but choose instead to ignore, avoid, or justify their way around earnest acknowledgment & reconciliation.🫠
@only_ohm @GoodNewsGreyShoes @Khrys same here. learned something
> A person who is lame due to a crippling of the legs or feet.
@GoodNewsGreyShoes @Khrys @dallo
Looks like the Concise Oxford English Dictionary has that definition starting with the 8th (1990) edition, but doesn't label it as derogatory until the 10th (1999) edition. Somewhat oddly, the 7th (1982) edition has a definition of "gimp" as "courage".
(There are digitized copies of all those editions on <archive.org>.)
zbrown@only_ohm @GoodNewsGreyShoes @dallo @Khrys and in fairness I've never seen anything to contradict the oft stated origins in Pulp Fiction, so it wasn't ‘named for’ in that sense, I'm also really not sure how common the word is, nevertheless it is ridiculous that the name persists, it's just not a good name and many people have perfectly reasonable objections, time to move on.
@zbrown @only_ohm @dallo @Khrys
> "...it is ridiculous that the name persists, it's just not a good name and many people have perfectly reasonable objections, time to move on."
Absolutely nailed it.👌💯
There is nothing uniquely special about the name "GNU Image Manipulation Program" that makes it necessary or irreplaceable.
It could just as easily be called "Visual Media Adjustment Tool", or "FLOSS Resource for Altering Image Files".🫤
@GoodNewsGreyShoes @zbrown @only_ohm @Khrys To talk to librist we have to use the right template. Here we go:
> I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as GIMP, is in fact, GNU Image Manipulation Program, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU+IMP or GnuIMP.
@GoodNewsGreyShoes @zbrown @only_ohm @Khrys In fact, we are not the first to call it GnuIMP online. I would be glad if it catch on.
(sorry, I'm really not sure what you mean re. libRIST templates...😬)
How does your choice to refer to the software as "GnuIMP" affect the derogatory nature of its truncation?
@GoodNewsGreyShoes that was mostly a humor answer made with a classic libre copypasta
Libriste is a french word for libre software user, I thought that it was used in english too. It seems not. English is not my main language.
GnuIMP could be a consensual mid-ground between the truly problematic GIMP term and the will of the authors.
@dallo Ah! Got it!👍
Tyvm for the clarification, I haven't heard libriste used in that context but it could easily be common parlance for others.🙏😅
@GoodNewsGreyShoes I think I am just wrong lol
@zbrown @only_ohm @dallo @Khrys I have no reason to doubt that the software was originally named as a reference to the BDSM scene in Pulp Fiction. Makes sense & seems plausible, to me!👍
My claim that the software was named *after* the slur was simply an awkwardly-worded attempt to indicate that 'gimp' had been used as an insult in the US for many, many years before the software or Pulp Fiction existed.
Ex: https://dare.wisc.edu/surveys/survey-results/1965-1970/health-and-disease/bb1/
Helga
𝕭𝔢𝔫 𝕯𝔲𝔤𝔲𝔦𝔡
fluffy 💜
Ken Franqueiro
Tokyo Outsider (337ppm)
mathew
derptron@dallo @Khrys That ship sailed a long time ago. Systemd has always been slop. To the point of actually proposing changes to the kernel command line to hack around bugs in systemd rather than fix them, which earned quite the colorful response from Linus.
But that's what is widely used so ... well, whatever. I figure if that's how you be you may as well use AI. Do the JIRA shuffle on fast forward.
vOv
Daniel Gibson@Doomed_Daniel @Khrys yes. it is the year of linux desktop and I am looking to get out. what a year.
@dallo @Khrys
yeah, it fucking sucks :(
an alternative would be a BSD - but for GPU support, at least FreeBSD relies on porting Linux drivers (which may contain slop and always lag behind the state in Linux), or you can use a nvidia GPU with their proprietary drivers for FreeBSD (as long as they provide those), which isn't great either
(see also https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@Doomed_Daniel/116219265297657823 and Yamagi's reply)
bazkie 👩🏼💻 bitplanes 🎵
Florian@Khrys Ready to quit ?
It depends ... what is the degree of cleaness that we consider ?
I may be wrong, but isn't the linux kernel project already accepting contributions made with the use of AI-generated code ?
If this is the case, then there is no such GNU/Linux AI-free distribution anymore.
Edit: to avoid confusion, that would be something I regret. But would I have the strength to resist it ? I don't know.
milagemayvaryGNU Guix has its own init system, so wouldn't be immediately scuppered by the contrary position of systemd.
Source that Linux kernel project may receive AI-assisted contributions ?
I cannot point to an example of such a contribution but at least the documentation indicates that it is now explicitely allowed:
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v7.0-rc1/process/coding-assistants.html
(github source:
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/process/coding-assistants.rst)
I'm familiar with the contributions to the kernel Linux, but the GNU utilities I don't believe is in the same situation.
fr0g
AMD HDR/Color Improvement For Their Linux Driver & KDE - Co-Developed By Claude Code
Introduced with Linux 6.19 was the long in development DRM Color Pipeline API while it's not the end of the road yet on enhancing the Linux desktop for modern high dynamic range (HDR) displays and color pipeline handling
The post I responded to was talking about the kernel?
I suggest to expand the post.
You had posted to a reply to my post asking for sources on GNU generative contrubutions to GNU utilities but continued on about the Linux kernel that you replied to.
Side thread discussions on mastodon tend to get a little messy.
@frog_reborn @milagemayvary @Khrys
Thanks for this example.
Reading the comments serves also as an example of the division among the communities.
technomancy@milagemayvary @fmasy @Khrys GNU is a group of loosely-associated projects
they absolutely can and should have a clear stance on this topic, but for whatever reason they have failed to publish a clear statement yet
(this is all the more baffling because they have decades of experience taking hardline moral positions against strong community objection, so why would they be dragging their feet on this extremely urgent one???)
until that happens, I'm hesitant to assume that any project will be clean just because it's under the GNU umbrella
lhp@technomancy @milagemayvary @fmasy @Khrys have they actually taken any new hardline stances in the last two decades? They might have just lost their bite. Which is unfortunate; if emacs falls to slop I will be mad.
@lhp @milagemayvary @fmasy @Khrys yeah, the truth is probably that they are just so myopically focused on licensing and DRM that they can't acknowledge the importance of any other concern
huge amount of wasted potential; it's especially sad in this case where we urgently need leadership and coordination
PunnO)))@technomancy @lhp @milagemayvary @fmasy @Khrys Which makes no sense to me, LLMs are the greatest threat to software licensing in our lifetimes.
...so far
@ieure @lhp @milagemayvary @fmasy @Khrys another angle here that I'm trying to track down is that if the contributor agreement requires you to be submitting an original work that you hold copyright to, then they might already ban LLM-generated patches by default
however the FSF bizarrely does not publish their copyright assignment paperwork as far as I can tell and goes to some lengths to prevent it from being posted publicly
Torbjörn Norinder@technomancy @ieure @lhp @milagemayvary @fmasy @Khrys there is a clause requiring the signee to warrant being the sole copyright holder, at least in the papers I signed in 2024
@tnorinder @ieure @lhp @milagemayvary @fmasy @Khrys I think some maintainers might argue that LLM-generated code may bypass the paperwork altogether as it's not under copyright so there's nothing to assign
in any case, it's urgently needed for GNU leadership to clarify a policy, but I don't have a lot of hope they will
Anthony Sorace@lhp @technomancy @milagemayvary @fmasy @Khrys
"have they actually taken any new hardline stances in the last two decades?"
Does "we're okay keeping serial harassers in positions of power" count as a hardline stance? Feels like a "moral stance" in one direction, anyway.
Given RMS's own history with the source for Emacs, I wouldn't look to them for moral leadership resisting the fascist plagiarism machine.
Artem R 🇺🇦@Khrys I think Linus was quite clear on that. What will happen when generated code will be in the kernel? You can also check position or cURL creator on LLM code, which is widely used
John Shaft@Khrys I want a clear statement by the kernel devteam too
Breizhhttps://docs.kernel.org/process/coding-assistants.html
Time to switch to BSD ? Well, I don't know their position.
Victor Mignot
Parade du Grotesque 💀