Mastodawn

AI6YR Ben Feb 27

Going to order the parts for a pico #hamradio balloon. Has anyone tried the Traquito WSPR balloon kits? Apparently you just upload hardware files to a third party PCB manufacturing company! I'm going to try to build one (or probably two... any new project, always buy 2x parts).

https://traquito.github.io/tracker/#jetpack-technical-details

#wspr #electronics

Jetpack WSPR Tracker - Traquito - WSPR Pico Balloons

AI6YR Ben Feb 27

First hurdle: The PCB manufacturer won't let me use their website, it insists I am a robot. I suspect this is because I am using a Linux machine. PEOPLE, THE ELECTRONICS/MAKER FOLKS WHO WANT TO USE YOU SITE ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE USING LINUX THAN NOT!!

AI6YR Ben Feb 27

Choices were to order 5 or order 10 boards (!). So, I ordered 5 boards. Enough for 5 balloons, lol. Cost using the cheapest shipping option will be approximately $12.50 for each of the add-on-boards. Will require also Raspberry Pi picos and tiny solar panels. #picoballoon #hamradio #wspr

AI6YR Ben Feb 27

In addition to circuit boards:

Ordered: Raspberry Pi Picos (2)
3 50 inch random Chinese Party Balloons
100 tiny little solar panels

Was going to order from Adafruit, but they have different spec "pirate" Pi's and a billion notices on their website about shipping delays, and people here have been complaining about lack of shipping/customer support... not sure what that is about.

The party balloons and solar panels apparently only available via Bezos Bazaar :-( -- in particular, buying anywhere else is fraught with de-minimis/tariff surcharge hazards. I'm not sure why the Bezos Bazaar doesn't have those issues, but it probably involves some kind of political payoff. 🤔

AI6YR Ben Feb 27

The presentations I have seen say it's preferable to fill these balloons with HYDROGEN (hello Hindenberg!), instead of Helium. In particular, it's apparently quite difficult to source full strength Helium now (due to Helium shortages, a nonrenewable gas...). Apparently not easy to get Hydrogen, either. 🤔

AI6YR Ben Feb 27

Ooh, there are a lot of amateur balloons bouncing around the world right now, actually!

#hamradio #wspr #aprs #balloons

AI6YR Ben Feb 28

Antenna wire. 26AWG magnet wire. I guess you can use smaller, but already have this. #antenna #picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben Feb 28

Party balloons acquired. I guess some folks like clear better. I feel the mylar has better odds of being mistaken for a UFO, and/or being shot down by jumpy people with joysticks and a giant laser. Or a Tomahawk missile. #hamradio #picoballoon

AI6YR Ben Feb 28

May also potentially have some helium. Maybe. It has some helium, the question is if it has enough to launch the payload. But apparently 80% helium might not get you to 40,000 feet. Also, no idea if there's much left in here, acquired from our local "hazmat reuse" center awhile ago when I first was thinking of this project, but then the US military was shooting down party balloons thinking they were giant Chinese surveillance balloons. #picoballoon

AI6YR Ben Mar 2

Raspberry Pico's acquired, tiny solar panels acquired (tiny!!!)

AI6YR Ben Mar 2

Photo of the Pi's and apparently 100 tiny solar panels

#hamradio #picoballoon

AI6YR Ben Mar 2

First lesson: Yikes! These solar panels may weigh nothing, but they are exceedingly fragile! Already broke two just picking them up. 300mW output indoors. #picoballoon #electronics #hamradio

AI6YR Ben Mar 4

Piggyback ballon transmitter boards being shipped via "Global Standard Direct Line". I guess these are being built overseas. Wonder if I'm going to get a big tariff bill. 🤔 We'll see if they get here anytime soon or not.

#picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben Mar 11

Circuit boards arrived! #picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

20m dipole on toilet paper rolls for the picoballoon. Maybe will have time to solder all these. Need to figure out the physical arrangement for the solar panels... considering some balsa struts. #picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

Picoballon Pi soldered to daughter board, GPS antenna attached, 20m dipole affixed. Next step is softwsre loading and the solar panel assembly. #picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

Unit programmed... GPS is not receiving, no view through my RF shielding roof. Transmitted some WSPR, not sure if it went anywhere, lol. Major annoyance: THE GUI to configure this board requires an Internet connection, and either Microsoft Edge (gag) or Google Chrome (Gag). I absolutely HATE those kinds of apps (that goes for the configuration of Mesh devices, too... how can you sell your mesh device as offline if you need an Internet connection to configure it? 🤔 )

#picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

The problem is these apps use "WebSerial"

Which you can read about at webserial.io

WAIT, NO, it won't let you read about it because you're not on Chrome. #loser

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

Next up: solar panels. Looks like these balloons look like eeny-teeny-weeny satellites.

https://relife.sk/pikobalon/

https://w0tx.org/2024/06/23/club-pico-balloon-launch/

https://nibbb.org/blog/

#picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

LOL I have been reading instructions from K9YO... maybe I should put a "please do not shoot me down" message on the balloon.

Space.com "...It turns out that the object blasted out of the sky over the Yukon on Feb. 11 by a U.S. Air Force jet might have been an amateur radio "pico balloon" — specifically, one called K9YO-15, which launched from Independence Grove Forest Preserve in Libertyville, Illinois, north of Chicago...."

https://www.space.com/mystery-object-shot-down-yukon-amateur-ballloon

#picoballoon #hamradio

Mystery object shot down over Yukon may have been harmless 'pico balloon'

The 32-inch-wide amateur balloon K9YO-15 was in the area and went missing shortly thereafter.

Space

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

Current GFS sounding at approximately my location (heat dome). I guess these float at 30,000 to 50,000 feet, which is (if I am doing the conversion correctly) at around the 250 to 200hPa pressure range. Looks like almost a cloud layer there right now (the green and red lines almost meet). Also looks like it's awfully windy up there, not sure how much that matters for the balloon (I assume it just gets pushed off by that wind...) 48-57 knot wind (55-66 mph) in that particular range, blowing to the southeast. (not that I am ready to launch anything... but curious to see what these and real soundings look like... maybe launch on a rocket launch day, they have equally limited tolerance for wind, too). #picoballoon #skewt #hamradio #wx

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

There's actually a weather balloon out of Vandenberg, but it appears its sensors failed or it has no temperature/humidity sensors?!? #picoballoon #wx

Oh look, a ham radio operator with an entire air force bombing range named after them, LOL. I don't know anything about his politics, probably terrible, I imagine.

(Barry M. Goldwater, K7UGA)

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

Well, soldering the solar panels is most certainly going to be the next challenge. And keeping them from shattering before launch from an accidental bump. Surprised these can even survive going up into the atmosphere. It's like trying to handle flaky pastries without getting crumbs everywhere. #picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

Built an array of solar panels and attempted to figure out a mounting arrangement. First "flight" hanging it from a laundry line and already broke some panels, and heat peeled the tape holding the panel array to the boards. It's clear the weak link in this whole thing will be the structural integrity of the solar power array... soldering the arrays is not easy even with extra flux, and any kind of physical stress and the solder and wires will either detach, or the solar panels break. #picoballoon #hamradio #electronics #fail

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

Also, lost the GPS antenna, which I re-soldered. Unclear why it detached. The WSPR transmitter also is not getting anywhere, and maybe not even transmitting. (not sure how the transmit slot works....) #picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

It doesn't help the other tracking map site has not fixed their Google Maps code in a decade. (Google Maps went to a credit system, where you pay for traffic, instead of "free"... maybe more than 10 years ago, and you were required to change your code or get this message). They really should have changed to another mapping layer. #wspr #hamradio #picoballoon

pmonks (330ppm)Mar 13

@ai6yr OpenStreetMap is right there!

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

Okay, stuck the mortally wounded solar panel in a bush and waited, and it's now sending (albeit to a compromised antenna) amd the green light is blinking. Progress. Need to fix the solar panel structure and figure how to make that work. Backup is to use the Traquitp circuit board design, but that will be another order. #picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben Mar 14

***another failure: taking this in, one of the dipole antenna legs separated from the solder. I guess I need to solder better, and also strain relief the antenna.

AI6YR Ben 4d ago

Pre stretching the balloon. This balloon is sausage shaped... like the Hindenburg. It is unclear to me if this is expected or not. It's the recommended one from websites. I swear the ones in the videos are rounder. #balloon #picoballoon #hamradii

AI6YR Ben 4d ago

Aha! These have sections that separate out... hence the need for pre stretching. #picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben 4d ago

Almost there. Yeah, you can raytrace and reconstruct my patio from this. #picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben 4d ago

New challenge: deflating the pre-stretched balloon. "using a vacuum cleaner" did not work per the instructions I see online.. I think the vacuum cleaner too powerful, and it collapses the tubing. So, just plugged it into the reverse port on the pump to see if that will work. 🤔 If not, off to find a metal tube or something I can shove in there and try the vacuum cleaner up close. #picoballoon #hamradio

AI6YR Ben 4d ago

Okay, balloon deflated, but not without running into a few things... hopefully didn't cause any structural damage to the balloon that will cause later early failure. Have determined a possible way to arrange solar panels with the board, just by strategic cuts in foam. I will try building out some solar arrays after this, by first gluing the solar panels but providing access to where I need to solar wires. Hopefully gluing them down before soldering will eliminate the snapping of panel edges. #picoballoon #hamradio

Foamcore might be a better option than that stuff. Rigid but still light.

Darth Osler 4d ago

@ai6yr think vacuum forming table

Do you have a surplus air hockey table? Or a spare accordion to sacrifice?

Kieran Murphy 4d ago

@ai6yr a steel straw is what I usually use to deflate that style of balloon. Plastic straw should work too, if those are still available in your region...

AI6YR Ben 4d ago

@km I used the straw shipped with the balloon, which was paper, lol. We have some steel straws, so I may have to "borrow" one for the next time.

Paul_IPv6 4d ago

🎶 Would you track the winds with my beautiful balloon?
How high could you fly in my beautiful balloon? 🎶

(apologies to Jimmy Webb...)

1.3.6.1.4.1.61513 4d ago

@ai6yr more than welcome to join the sondehub discord if you want to ask adhoc questions. We aren't huge fans of picoballoon groups.io culture and how picoballooning has competing not very well documented abuse of wspr, but we are still trying to help people out where we can and there's a lot of experienced peeps.

AI6YR Ben 4d ago

@xssfox Thanks! May do that here....

smallsolar 4d ago

@ai6yr the pre-stretch also reduces the strain of day/night cycles. Looking forward to seeing your Pico in the air!

AI6YR Ben 4d ago

@smallsolar Thanks! Hoping mine makes it out of the county, lol.

smallsolar 4d ago

@ai6yr if you first don't succeed, try again. Check out the pioneer of long duration pico balloons http://leobodnar.com/balloons/

Balloon flights / Leo Bodnar

AI6YR Ben 4d ago

@smallsolar Wow!!!

Darth Osler 4d ago

@smallsolar @ai6yr fill it with hydrogen for that diy buoyancy

AI6YR Ben 4d ago

@autolycos @smallsolar That is in the possible plans, for sure. But I have some free helium to use for try#1

wombatle wombatle 4d ago

@ai6yr @autolycos @smallsolar

Not sure why it took me a while to notice that IEEE Spectrum had an article about pico balloons earlier this year.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/explore-stratosphere-diy-pico-balloon

The spurious emissions from the jetpack is worrying.

High-Altitude Adventure With a DIY Pico Balloon

A $4 Raspberry Pi Pico can help you track a DIY balloon around the world.

IEEE Spectrum

Muro deGrizeco Mar 13

I was just thinking about those Traquito PCB popsicle sticks....

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

@murodegrizeco Yeah, clearly they went down this path as well.

Rue Mohr Mar 13

maybe some thermal moof? (and a ridgid backer?)

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

@RueNahcMohr Yeah, need rigid but light backing and I need way more flexible wire, the connection wire I am using has no flex and any movement snaps them off the panels. I have some wire wrap wire which I am going to try on the next try. I attempted to use epoxy (fail, melted the foam), and then tried rubber cement (which seems to work better... at least at ground level). I have some RC plane cement which people swear by ordered for the next try. Definitely did not realize the solar panels would be the issue here.

Rue Mohr Mar 13

@ai6yr oh, how light do you need it to be?

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

@RueNahcMohr Target weight is 5 to 17 grams

Rue Mohr Mar 13

a popcile stick is 1.5g, I think your into a carbon fiber structure.

andybrwn Mar 13

@ai6yr What about that thin plastic netting used for some produce like oranges (or the stuff that holds grass roles together)?

Thought about taping the panels together at the long edge, and protective tape on the short edge?

Then interconnects can be flexible wire for less stress.

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

@zl2tod I'm definitely switching to thin, flexible wire for the interconnects (wire wrap wire). Not sure if this can handle being taped, lol. Will see. The hard part, is you have to solder to the front AND the back, so you have to flip over the panels and the wire has to sit someplace. I may give myself more wire between panels so they can sit flush with some surface (foam, etc.).

Wire wrap wire doesn't like being flexed much - it breaks where the stripper worked. 0.2mm² stranded hook-up wire would be my pick, dunno what that is in American. Maniacs may use Litz wire (don't listen to Wikipedia, Litz wire was used for it's flexibility long before it made it into SMPSUs).

@ai6yr could you paint some kind of clear coat on the panels to give them a little more strength (without too much weight)?

@ai6yr or I guess something on the back if they’re not double sided

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

@scm I am tempted to tape them all together on the back (very lightweight tape, but would provide some structural support), or super glue them all to a thing balsa wood strut or two to keep them in place.Then very carefully solder them with very thin wire. The leads of resistors may be too big! (I was thinking of using that as the structural support, but it can't take *any* kind of pressure. ). Or I'll glue them to some kind of extremely light foam.

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

@scm They're easier to break than potato chips.

azstefano Mar 13

@ai6yr @scm
I'm very happy with the result I get using Beacon Foam-Tac. This is used by RC-flyers because it gets tacky and sets fast. It's strong: I use it for some attachment points including the PV-cells to foam. I also use a dab to help seal the balloon flap. Get a package with the mini-tubes - a large tube could dry out.

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

@azstefano @scm Thanks, will look for that!

Bryan Haskin Mar 13

@ai6yr wonder if they will hold up in the wind.

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

@bhhaskin Exactly my thought. I am going to tape them to foam, just need to figure out what kind of foam and source some now.

azstefano Mar 13

@ai6yr They're pretty fragile but they're the best performers. Tape down anything that might transmit force to them. I use wire-wrap wire to connect to them, and I tape it down immediately.

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

@azstefano Thanks, I will look for some foam. Any particular specs on the foam you suggest?

Sam Oldman 🐀Mar 13

@ai6yr @azstefano Could you use the double sided sticky foam for this? A lot of electronics seems to be put together with this stuff.

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

@samloonie @azstefano I imagine most lightweight, stiff foams would work. I will see what I have around here, or I will run to the local dollar store...

azstefano Mar 13

@ai6yr I used foam from a pack of meat trays - it was just thick enough to be stable - about 1/8". Tape was Kapton. The FoamTac glue stays flexible - it doesn't get brittle.

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

@azstefano Thanks! I will intercept and wash some of those, that is better than buying!

🍊𝕎𝕚𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕣 𝕆𝕣𝕔𝕙𝕒𝕣𝕕 ❄️Mar 13

@ai6yr I grew up driving by his (K7UGA) house on occasion and would see the big ass antenna on his radio shack. Strangely, my G-pa, a blue collar Dem, used to play golf with him on occasion too. Different times.

Scooter8647 🇺🇦 🇳🇿Mar 13

@mangotable @ai6yr My dad (KB7FA) knew him too as they sometimes shared the stage at ham radio events. Young BG was pretty conservative alright but got a bit more liberal as he got older, as did my dad. LBJ did a pretty good job of painting BG as a war-monger, but he struck me as a bit more pragmatic than dangerous. Nothing like the current idiot.

🍊𝕎𝕚𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕣 𝕆𝕣𝕔𝕙𝕒𝕣𝕕 ❄️Mar 13

@Doppelganger75 @ai6yr this is worth a read.

https://a.co/d/03AnupoN

Amazon.com

🍊𝕎𝕚𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕣 𝕆𝕣𝕔𝕙𝕒𝕣𝕕 ❄️Mar 13

@Doppelganger75 @ai6yr Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus https://a.co/d/0igmLQuy

Amazon.com

Matt Blaze Mar 13

@ai6yr Not progressive to be sure - he was “intellectually” opposed to the 1964 civil rights act, and is often credited as one of the founders of modern US conservative thought - but by modern Republican/MAGA standards, he’d be probably considered a radical leftist.

@mattblaze @ai6yr The Goldwater Institute in Phoenix is currently a horrible, hateful, untruthful publisher of racist, classist, fascist garbage. Much as I dislike Goldwater's politics, I think even he would be appalled at what his namesake institution is pushing these days.

AI6YR Ben Mar 13

@Nshrubs @mattblaze 😱