Mastodawn

Hello Clippy 5d ago

Vivaldi Browser

Big Tech is at it again.

Some of you might have seen this already. Google has announced a new policy for Android app developers, which would require them to seek Google’s permission if they want to distribute their apps outside of the Google Play Store (on their own website or on alternative app stores). This would entail:

1) agreeing to their terms and conditions
2) paying a fee
3) uploading a government ID

Which is wrong on so many levels. Nobody should be forced to register with Google if they don’t want to use their services.

In doing so they would be extending their gatekeeping (tentacles) into distribution channels where they’re just not a legitimate authority.

At Vivaldi, we believe you have the right to run whatever software you want on a device you own. That’s why we’ve co-signed this open letter, together with other 53 organisations, requesting Google to back off on the proposed policy before it enters into force.

(Plus, they have have a pretty cool logo 😄)

https://keepandroidopen.org/open-letter/

An Open Letter to Google regarding Mandatory Developer Registration for Android App Distribution

Open Letter to Google Regarding Mandatory Developer Registration for Third-Party App Distribution

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺5d ago

@Vivaldi vivaldi IS big tech.

your whole service would die without BIG tech server ... hypocrit.

@lexinova uh… @Vivaldi is employee-owned, 4 million users, staff size of dozens, not US (Norway)… How is this Big Tech? Am I missing some secret deal with FAANG or some VC or something?

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺5d ago

@InkomTech @Vivaldi Simply use a basic tool to check the location of their IP

Cloudflare US (and it's the one most ealisy to check yourself), other (often paid tool) allow to show more US link of all their services.

they are liar, they sell US server as EU.

they are big tech

stuartwakes 5d ago

@lexinova @InkomTech @Vivaldi could switch to Bunny.net instead... just saying 🤷

Jose J. Fernández 5d ago

@lexinova @InkomTech @Vivaldi Saying that they use US big tech is accurate, saying that they *are* big tech is not. But yes, they could switch to an EU CDN to be true to their claims.

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺5d ago

@josejfernandez @InkomTech @Vivaldi sadly some of their server that serve assets semed (last time i checked) also use some hyperscaler.

so if the assets is on hyperscaler is not too far fetched to thing everything is in hyperscaler

even more when their domain itself is managed trough GoDaddy.com, LLC who is surprise again an US company

@lexinova @josejfernandez @Vivaldi i mean, GoDaddy is nasty AF for other reasons, but my above point stands: if I am stuck buying from Big Tech, I’m not Big Tech. Ditto on being USian.

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺5d ago

@InkomTech @josejfernandez @Vivaldi if your service run via bigtech you are big tech.

lying to yourself won't solve the issue, that big tech own you and can break you at moment notice.

also CDN we use bunny.net so no you are not "forced to use" big tech, it's a choice.

@lexinova @josejfernandez @Vivaldi

“If your service runs via big tech, you are big tech.” I think the part where Big Tech says ‘pay me’ is a threshold.

And every step of divesting from an objectionable part of your ops stack or supply chain is fucking hard.

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺5d ago

@InkomTech @josejfernandez @Vivaldi again hard is never an excuse.

always a choice, like company that run on cisco it's a choice, we have chosen @mikrotik

so defend you choice how you want the fact remain.

you have CHOSEN to use big tech.
so you contribute to big tech and you BECOME part of big tech.

now i will stop answering, as i will not change your mind and you will not change mine

Jose J. Fernández 5d ago

@lexinova @InkomTech @Vivaldi I do agree on the pro-EU and anti big tech sentiment, but I still don't consider Vivaldi big tech. I think this is purely a semantic discussion. Meta cannot choose not to be big tech, Vivaldi can choose to not use big tech.

For me this matters because I can reach out to Vivaldi and encourage them to switch to european tech, but I cannot reach out to Meta to make them stop being big tech. I can "help" the former to make better choices, I can only boycott the later.

The fact that Vivaldi is promoting the right initiatives and sending the right message already puts them aside - actual big tech are doing the opposite. I think this should be taken into consideration too.

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺5d ago

@josejfernandez @InkomTech @Vivaldi it's not european tech ... since they only use US tech.

opening an EU company to sell US product is not becoming an EU tech ...

Jose J. Fernández 5d ago

@lexinova @InkomTech @Vivaldi I consider something to be European if it's made in Europe, regardless of their choices of providers.

In the case of Vivaldi their status as an "EU tech" company would be up to debate given that neither Norway or Iceland are part of the European Union.

I suppose that by liberally saying what Vivaldi is or is not you are trying to reinforce the pro-EU, anti-US message, but I'm not sure it's helping. Wouldn't it be better to acknowledge reality and move on to encourage them to leave Cloudflare and friends?

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺5d ago

@josejfernandez @InkomTech @Vivaldi witch is dumb in a digital way, if the digital good is in US, if the seller is EU it's drop shipping (in a digital way) it's not european

@lexinova @josejfernandez

Like Lexinova a few comments ago, I’m kind of done here. We differ in our tolerances, but both want options that aren’t feeding greed, corruption, surveillance, and oligarchy.

It’s good for a company to be forthright in where and how they act. And I love when we challenge and seek clarification when we see contradictions between packets on the wire and stated Policies.

@lexinova they use cloudflare? That’s it?

I have a friend who uses Microsoft for their tech writing. Because it’s the common denominator for customers. If I had a commercial website, the day after a DDoSing, I’d call cloudflare. If someone advertises via them, it’s to survive. This doesn’t make any of these Big Tech. We are the little bugs reliant on them.

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺5d ago

@InkomTech sadly some of their server that serve assets semed (last time i checked) also use some hyperscaler.

so if the assets is on hyperscaler is not too far fetched to think everything is in hyperscaler

even more when their domain itself is managed trough GoDaddy.com, LLC who is surprise again an US company

so here everything i could check is on US server, so saying they are EU is a LIE, only EU washing.

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺5d ago

@InkomTech and of course when asked directly they serve you the same answer as every liar ...

they don't answer or serve BS of hyperscaler is obligatory to work.

@lexinova thanks for taking the time to clarify.

I deeply respect when someone points out my mistakes or offers suggestions for improvement. But I also recognize that a company of 10-50 may not have money or resources to implement certain tech components efficiently.

I don’t expect a blacksmith to mine and smelt their feedstock. And it seems harsh to write like you’re doing and call Vivaldi liars for not being as privacy/resource-respectful as we both hope some browser co will become.

William B Peckham 5d ago

@lexinova @Vivaldi i'm a customer of some other sites that use cloudflare. I have been on their sites when they did not, and they've come under attack. If somebody in Norway or the EU or the UK could provide the kind of protection and the degree of protection for the same price as Cloudflare, I think a lot of projects would move over. Until then, you're stuck with the solution that works. The threat is continuous, if not constant.

Miss Gayle 5d ago

Sounds like a lawsuit. A company can't charge a fee to people who don't want to do business with it. That is de facto racketeering, not to mention monopoly powers.

@Vivaldi this is bananas to me. Android's openness is its competitive advantage. If I'm going to be locked into a Google ecosystem, I may as well get an iPhone. This won't affect me as much, I'm either on Lineage or graphene but that's also just a locked bootloader away from being taken away. Thanks for fighting the good fight.

Catweazle 5d ago

@clmj @Vivaldi, only using GrapheneOS, because it's locked exclusive to the Google Phone, Linage and e/OS are EU OpenSource.
The problem is less the OS, it's mainly the Big Brother US tech.
I miss Mozilla between the Signtories, shows a lot.

SecondUniverse (she/her/they)5d ago

@Vivaldi Doesn't that fall foul of a ton of EU legislation that forced mobile OS vendors to open up to third party app markets?

SecondUniverse (she/her/they)5d ago

@Vivaldi Maybe they are just trying a new angle because they think Trump will back them up.

Vlad_3301 5d ago

@Vivaldi Подержите тогда независимых маркетов, например F-Android.Хорошо, когда хотите пользоваться приложением, но не зависеть, откуда вы его установили. Ответственность берет и пользователь, а Гугл берет очень много.
Гугл становится уж совсем как Апл Маркет.
Then try independent markets, such as F-Android.
It's good when you want to use the app, but don't depend on where you installed it from. The user also takes responsibility, and Google takes a lot.Google is becoming just like Apple Market

Julien Messager 5d ago

"Don't be evil"… bullshit…

derptron 5d ago

@jmessager @Vivaldi They explicitly stopped pursuing that mantra a number of years ago.

Julien Messager 5d ago

@crazyeddie @Vivaldi

"A more civilized age…"

@Vivaldi funny how this get far less attention to here than whatever Microslop does, almost like most here moan about stuff cus they are forced use M$ stuff at work, but outside that, all their private devices are all from the overpriced cult of the choosen fruit. Where as the rest of us peasant masses use cheap windows devices just to run the Chrome browser or Chrome OS devices and cheap google Android devices for everything else. This isn't 2001 anymore.

Bonsai861 5d ago

@Vivaldi Just in case they do, please can you prepare a Ubuntu Touch or SailfishOS app? Let me know which one so I can switch to that OS next.

Kristoffer Lawson 5d ago

@bonsai861 @Vivaldi I actually run the Vivaldi browser on Sailfish, but the Android version. In addition to the native Jolla browser.

Though it would be especially nice if Vivaldi did a native Sailfish app. Might be then tempted to switch all my Sailfish browsing to that.

Zoidberg For President 5d ago

@Vivaldi I did not understood it that way, they'd ask a few to post the app OUTSIDE of their store? WTF...

dotmavriq 5d ago

@Vivaldi
All it means is that I'm buying a Motorola next.

Toni Aittoniemi 5d ago

@Vivaldi So they’re basically saying they ”own” Android.

But the question is, as with any other rules, how are they going to enforce this?

Do you get banned from the Play store? What else CAN they do?

🌴 Seph 💭 👾5d ago

@gimulnautti @Vivaldi Come September they're supposed to be pushing a 'security update' that will block any unapproved app from running on Android devices.

Leo Schuldiner🤘🏼5d ago

@Vivaldi I met Vivaldi browser thanks to Mastodon and it's been a great experience. Everything works perfectly and it has options and ingenious alternative uses and visual displays. Totally recommended.

Luis Carlos 5d ago

@alexchapman @Vivaldi Fuck america, fuck microtrump and goopublicns! that's all

@Vivaldi I guess it is back to the flip phone.

schuelermine 5d ago

@Vivaldi I'm a bit confused by what the social media buttons next to the signatories mean. They try to post something. But the post isn't about the signatory I clicked the button on. But the Mastodon buttons all post to different Mastodon servers. What's going on?

Verđandi K Soldusty 5d ago

@anselmschueler @Vivaldi
Mastodon is decentralised, I'm guessing each goes to the mastodon instance operated or supported by which ever app / company the

logo is next to.

schuelermine 4d ago

@Soldusty @Vivaldi Right, but it doesn't link to them. It's a link that asks you to post a message thanking them on that instance.

Verđandi K Soldusty 4d ago

@anselmschueler @Vivaldi
Just had a look & I guess it's because if you did want to send the message they're assuming we all want to send, they can't send us to our instance as they don't know which that would be.
Just one of the weird perks of decentralisation I guess.

RED5HADES 5d ago

@Vivaldi you know what's better than signing an open letter
Changing your licence to opensource i.e GPLv2/3 and MIT

mcSlibinas 5d ago

@Vivaldi let it die finally. I mean let google kill android. The sooner end - the sooner linux phone.

Follow them on
@keepandroidopen

neodog_floof_devil

@Vivaldi but do you believe we deserve to know what is running on our machines? Last I checked Vivaldi is proprietary :)

Love the posturing tho.

Vivaldi Browser 5d ago

@lainz we have always been involved in regulatory work and done our part to stop tech giants. It's absolutely not posturing, it's who we are.

I am sure you're aware that many Vivaldi employees are users and proponents of open source software, and that the fact that roughly 5% of our code (relative to the UI) is obfuscated, is a protective measure given the size of our company. But here's the long explanation in case you haven't read it yet: https://vivaldi.com/blog/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser-open-source/

Why isn’t Vivaldi browser open-source? | Vivaldi Browser

People involved in the open-source community often ask us why Vivaldi browser isn’t fully open-source. In this post, we’ll explore and explain our position.

Vivaldi Browser

neodog_floof_devil

@Vivaldi

5% of your code is obfuscated?

Note that, of the three layers above, only the UI layer is closed-source. Roughly 92% of the browser’s code is open source coming from Chromium, 3% is open source coming from us, which leaves only 5% for our UI closed-source code.Counting that 92% Chromium as if it was your product is silly and potentially misleading. The 8% is (as the post said) what Vivaldi is, and 5% (~62.5% relative) of that is proprietary. Your code is, believing the figures from the post you linked, predominantly proprietary.

🌸 Ⓐnarkitty lumi-nhac

@lainz @Vivaldi i don't feel there is ever an excuse to have even 1 line of code be proprietary, especially in something as critical as a web browser

you don't have to set up any infrastructure for it or accept outside contributions (though this would be preferred). you could literally just have a link to the code under a free software license on the downloads page and that would be enough

Conny Nasch 5d ago

@Vivaldi I did not approve of google after they changed their methodology, quite a while ago. I moved away from their products as much as possible. 🤬

Frutiger 5d ago

@Vivaldi Not only they do want to control apps but they want to close access to other download alternatives because they are seeing a lot of people against google.

Google: you are with me or you are against me.

They know their store is powerful and not having their apps in their store would make much less downloads.

William B Peckham 5d ago

@Vivaldi I signed.

FJ Brodie 4d ago

@Vivaldi a few of my regularly used apps are from F-Droid. Sometimes they've put notices up, or app devs have added banners about this. Devs want to contribute to people's lives in a positive way, without anyone knowing their true name, location or any other personally identifiable information.

I don't think that's unreasonable. But I'm just a random and don't make the rules in how we should treat people 😏

Petr Skála 4d ago

@Vivaldi 😀👍

Tofu Golem 3d ago

@Vivaldi
They are locking down the platform even though they still suck at detecting when malware has been submitted to the app store.