@benroyce there's some accounts I follow just so I can watch this phenomenon in action

like, dude

you show up only for elections and global events involving explosions

you are some kind of indistinct anarcho-tankie, without any kind of clearly articulated politics and no nuance whatsoever

you claim to have cats but never post pictures of them

we recognize what you're doing here

@sarae

tankies are the easiest for a right winger to fake, right wingers and tankies are both fascistic in their authoritarianism

and real tankies i think are just right wingers still evolving, and will eventually no longer be tankies, and wind up as straight fascists in a few months/ years

@benroyce @sarae I see the same thing in Libertarians and Anarcho-Capitalists (whatever the fuck that is) they are straight up small government conservatives who are only against authoritarianism when it involves their liberty.

They claim to be against government but love a bit of governance as long as they don't have to pay taxes to get it and can still do whatever the fuck they like in their own backyard.

@naturepunk @sarae

both libertarianism and anarchism is dumb in that there is no such thing as a power vacuum. it gets filled one way or another

and so both libertarians and anarchists are getting steamrolled by the local gang leader turned warlord in their utopian vision of their libertarian/ anarchist paradise

they all seem like very earnest, very naive college sophomores who just read a book and are very excited but have zero experience with certain unfortunate aspects of human nature

@benroyce @sarae I'm an anarchist ;)

I don't expect to see the utopia I want to live in to exist in my lifetime but if humanity survives then why not in the future.

There isn't a power vacuum problem in anarchy. The power is distributed in a more equal fashion.

A warlord can only exist if they remove power from their foot soldiers to kickstart the regime. Where are they getting the power to do that from without foot soldiers? They have a bootstrap problem ;)

@plantagolabs @benroyce @sarae that's very possible but there is still a bootstrap problem.

It's easy for cults to recruit in an unequal world but harder when there is equality everywhere and people have the time to support each other when they feel marginalised.

I'm not sure a cult could grow to the extent it could over throw anything other than the smallest community when the norms of society are to provide for everyone and respect their choices even if they are add odds with that society.

@naturepunk @plantagolabs @sarae

unfortunately it doesn't work that way

you can have everyone provided for materially, and there's still many who will wind up as thieves and murderers

you're very well meaning but rather naive

people can be quite nasty. sometimes for no other reason than pique

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_and_Loeb

@benroyce @plantagolabs @sarae like I've said I don't know how to get there but once we do objections to the idea that exist due to issues in todays society will be moot.

"You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one"

@naturepunk @plantagolabs @sarae

dreaming is great

however it is effective action that changes the world

you need to articulate a plan, not merely state a destination

otherwise no one is ever going to arrive at that destination

@benroyce @plantagolabs @sarae The way to get there is to try and do a little to improve the world every day and live the change you want to see in the world.

You live by that code already.

We all have the power to make the world a better place and eventually it becomes the best place.

The process is as valid as the destination even if nobody can define the exact way we get there we know that by trying we make things better for everyone.

@naturepunk @plantagolabs @sarae

see i like you and my intent is not to crush your soul

i just believe that you might need to adjust your methods, and your final destination, because i think you might not perceive just how vicious and nasty people can be, often times for no good reason at all. and that this is enough to destroy so much, that you need better safeguards and better recruitment methods to engage where people are, rather than an idealized vision of where they might be

@benroyce @naturepunk @sarae I see human progress as climbing a mountain attached together with a rope. It is fun to argue which summit is highest, but we need to get out of the misty swamps first. Any step up is in the right direction at this point.

IMO if some want to believe in the good nature of humans, let them be, as long as they help pull upwards.

@plantagolabs @naturepunk @sarae

well said but on the contrary i think the left is divided enough as it is, that siphoning off so much good will and effort to pipe dreams is not so much a threat, as just a waste of resources. because they're not necessarily pulling towards the same destination

but i agree everyone is allowed to dream

as long as their dreaming doesn't interfere with real world goals and real world actions that actually are improving the world

@benroyce @plantagolabs @sarae I'm one of those anarchists who is enough of realist to understand I live in a parliamentary democracy and the most important thing I can do is vote for the candidate who is going to do the least harm.

Even with our first past the post system it's easier to do that here than over there with almost a two party system and I acknowledge that it's harder for you guys to break that duopoly.

The left over here will turn the country Green :)