Mastodawn

Menno Boogaard Feb 20

Fabio Manganiello

Yes, the #EU has a lot of regulations.

But remember that thanks to those regulations you can use a single USB-C cable that can charge anything, rather than 10 different connectors and adapters as it was common until 10-15 years ago.

Remember that it’s thanks to those regulations if you no longer have to pay eye watering roaming fees for calls and data when you travel to other EU countries, as it was common until 5-10 years ago.

Remember that it’s thanks to those regulations if big tech has at least some constraints onto what it can do with your data and how much choice you have as a customer.

Remember that it’s thanks to those regulations if you, as a EU citizen, can benefit from the services of any other embassy of any other EU country if stranded abroad.

Those who try to depict the EU as a bureaucratic hell worth dismantling are those who hate the impact that its laws have on their freedom of exploiting markets, exploiting customers or living out of rent money.

Or those who hate the combined economic and political power of a united Europe with a single market because it threatens their national interests, and they’d rather exert their leverage with a bunch of divided and weaker countries instead.

Europe isn’t perfect and a lot can be improved. But those who call for its demise DO NOT talk in your interests.

And then there's the *incredibly predictable* consequences of not understanding.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/economics/the-economic-cost-of-brexit-has-just-been-laid-bare-and-its-devastating-403099/

#Brexit #BrexitLies #EU #Europe

The economic cost of Brexit has just been laid bare – and it’s devastating

A decade on, the economic cost of Brexit has just been laid bare – and it’s devastating. Here's what the figures say.

The London Economic

"This leaves Britain as a rare modern case study: a rich country that deliberately raised barriers to trade and cooperation and paid the price. "

And now we have the States: a rich country that deliberately raised barriers to trade and cooperation and paid the price.

Good point. In both cases, driven by the so very easily manipulated tribalists.

Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE Mar 10

@gsymon @fabio No, it's not "devastating", it's "successful".

Putin's 17.4m #brexshitters voted to fuck up other people's lives and they have succeeded in getting exactly what they wanted.

Kent Navalesi ☕️Feb 19

Europeans have no idea what it's like to live in the unregulated hell that is the US.

@KentNavalesi @fabio I agree but Europeans do at least hear more about the US. I have lived in both the US and Europe and I have to say that many USians do not have a clue about the meaning of freedom and democracy. Europe is not perfect but it is a far better place to live than the US.

Brad Howes Feb 20

@SamanthaJaneSmith @KentNavalesi @fabio As an American now living in the EU for 16 years, I agree completely agree.

Kent Navalesi ☕️Feb 20

@SamanthaJaneSmith
@fabio

Right. I didn't mean to imply any comparison.

@KentNavalesi @fabio Oh I got that!

Erik Ableson Feb 24

@SamanthaJaneSmith @KentNavalesi @fabio Ditto. I lived in the Midwest for a few years and could tell stories. Much happier in the EU

🔏 Matthias Wiesmann Mar 9

@KentNavalesi @fabio I would argue that Europeans are also unaware that the US can be very rule heavy compared to Europe, like for instance for construction. Most Europeans villas would run afoul of US zoning laws, or homeowner association rules. Elevators are another domain where US regulations have strangled the market, and of course trains.

@fabio Thank you! Very well put!

Konstantin 🔭Feb 19

@fabio those regulations also include other perks like:

- Prices you see in the store or online are final (no hidden fees).

- You get European movies and content on Netflix and other platforms

- When you order something, you get info when it will be delivered

- When you buy food, you know it’s safe to eat

- 2 years of free warranty for gadgets and electronics

- Your kid can go to school or get a degree regardless of your financial situation

… and that’s just scratching the surface

@iamkonstantin @fabio lol the info you get for things ordered online in France is “it’s not gonna show up, what makes you think it’d be different this time?”

matzipan Feb 19

@iamkonstantin all cars have to make annoying beeping noises when you go over the speed limit!

𝙲:\𝚝𝚛𝚊𝚗𝚔𝚣𝚎𝚗> █Feb 20

@iamkonstantin @fabio plus the biggest, implied perk, we now got 80 years without tearing the continent apart in a war.

WoollyMel Feb 20

@trkzn @iamkonstantin @fabio
Don't forget Ukraine who are bravely defending themselves against the aggressive Putin. That is a war .

𝙲:\𝚝𝚛𝚊𝚗𝚔𝚣𝚎𝚗> █Feb 20

@MelSedds @iamkonstantin @fabio Yeah of course, and war was also raging in the Balkans in the 1990s but what I mean is we're not getting wars between #EU members anymore, and we're not getting continental wars like we used to up to WW2

@fabio The way I was taught to look at regulations is that they are a careful record of past fuck ups.

Svavar the Neurospicy Feb 19

Safety regulations are written in blood.

SamuelJohnson Feb 19

@svavar @3rdi @fabio And the removal of them too.

On the morning of the Grenfell fire in London the Conservancy party them in govt had a meeting scheduled to discuss having a "bonfire of building regulations" (already among the weakest in Europe).

@svavar Truth!

Nicks World Feb 19

@MikeFromLFE @fabio The European union is incredibly strict. It's like dealing with a principal at your high school.

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Feb 19

@NicksWorld @fabio
I'm not sure that's a good analogy.
The EU is perhaps more like a benevolent uncle who keeps you safe and looks after you from a distance.

Oh how I wish we were still European here in the UK!

Nicks World Feb 19

@MikeFromLFE @fabio All I see from the EU is this company got fined ,and that company got fined and taxes taxes taxes.

Serge 🔻Feb 19

@NicksWorld @MikeFromLFE @fabio perhaps it’s wise to enquire why these companies got fined (spoiler: they usually did inexcusable things to consumers like you and me).

Also, the EU collects roughly €0 in taxes annually. It’s all import duties and contributions from EU countries that are a small percentage of GDP (~1%), of which ~93% flows right back to those EU countries.

Nicks World Feb 19

@xerge @MikeFromLFE @fabio Okay, I was wrong about the EU. Got a lesson from google. It's essentially like a club that has rules but allows for independent nations which have their own military, healthcare, and tax structures. Sorry European friends.

It's also so ridiculous when people complain about bureaucracy. Yes there is. No doubt.

But without the EU, you would have 27 national bureaucracies to handle the matters now handled in one single place.

And not necessarily in a better way.

@xerge @MikeFromLFE @fabio

SamuelJohnson Feb 19

@mina @NicksWorld @xerge @MikeFromLFE @fabio

Most Europeans don't realize how much better and more efficient EU bureaucracy is than that of the US.

https://fsi.stanford.edu/events/why-europe%E2%80%99s-single-market-surpassed-america%E2%80%99s

The cost to the British of excluding themselves has been 6-8% of GDP on a recurring basis, an 18% drop in investment etc.

Why Europe’s Single Market Surpassed America’s

Zambunny Feb 19

@NicksWorld @xerge @MikeFromLFE @fabio I don't know where you live (US?) but you might want to check where your news outlets stand in political terms. The EU has been attacked for many years now by powers that wish to see European states weak and divided. Case in point, Matteo Salvini being in the Epstein Files as being on Bannon's payroll. This absolute cockwomble of a man was one of the major proponents of Italy leaving the EU, even after the disastrous shitshow that is Brexit.

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Feb 19

@NicksWorld @xerge @fabio
That's ok!
The EU is widely misunderstood, not just in the rest of the world, but in parts of the EU as well.
This misunderstanding, along with a lot of misinformation, was what led to the Brexit crisis that the UK is still suffering under.

Nicks World Feb 19

@MikeFromLFE @xerge @fabio I hope the UK gets back into the EU, though I don't know how it'll rejoin if it ever decides to come back.

SamuelJohnson Feb 19

@NicksWorld @MikeFromLFE @xerge @fabio It will have to apply and every member state will have to approve.

Nicks World Feb 19

@samueljohnson @MikeFromLFE @xerge @fabio So its an agreed payment. I see.

SamuelJohnson Feb 19

@xerge @NicksWorld @MikeFromLFE @fabio Most of the EU's budget comes from a flat 0.3% VAT, which is why larger economies contribute more (UK was 8th on a per capita basis).

Nicks World Feb 19

@samueljohnson @xerge @MikeFromLFE @fabio I find it interesting. I don't know what VAT is. Is it like sales tax?

SamuelJohnson Feb 19

@NicksWorld @xerge @MikeFromLFE @fabio Value Added Tax, yes it's like a form of sales tax payable based on the increase in value at stages in the supply chain. I'm sure you can look it up. What is less well known is why it's particularly suited to crossborder trade. A good explanation can be found in "A Short History of Brexit" by Prof Kevin O'Rourke.

🦩 Plastic Garden Fauna 🦩Feb 19

@NicksWorld @MikeFromLFE @fabio You sound like a sociopath TBH. What do you do that's so important it deserves to be unregulated and untaxed?

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Feb 19

@OvertonDoors @NicksWorld @fabio That seems a bit harsh considering Nick said he was wrong, and apologised to his European friends.

Nicks World Feb 19

@MikeFromLFE @OvertonDoors @fabio I've heard worse, besides, I'm not a business owner.

Nicks World Feb 19

@OvertonDoors @MikeFromLFE @fabio I love how you can just call someone that without a license. I simply can't take you seriously, its actually kind of funny how people get triggered, its like pushing a button or pulling a lever.

🦩 Plastic Garden Fauna 🦩Feb 19

@NicksWorld @MikeFromLFE @fabio

Just calling a spade a spade bubba, nobody triggered here save you perhaps. Anyways, you might take a moment and read the room. Your predatory bullshit has fallen upon deaf ears. Prostelitize deregulation among the ignorant, you won't find much sympathy on this platform.

Nicks World Feb 19

@OvertonDoors @MikeFromLFE @fabio This is a very liberal platform which in general is an echo chamber which is fine, I'm more of a socially liberal person, just not financially liberal for example, I'd be fine with completely legalizing the devil's lettuce, just make it like beer, 21 and older and no less.

🦩 Plastic Garden Fauna 🦩Feb 20

@NicksWorld @MikeFromLFE @fabio

Sure, deregulation is great lol. There's no need to regulate businesses, they always make decisions that are to everyone's benifit. Just keep the unwashed masses bearing the consequences of unfettered corporatism disenfranchised from the political system. There you go problem solved.

https://www.socratic-method.com/quote-meanings-and-interpretations/benito-mussolini-fascism-should-rightly-be-called-corporatism-as-it-is-the-merger-of-corporate-and-government-power

Benito Mussolini: 'Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.' — The Socratic Method

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power. Title: The Intricate Dance of Power: Fascism, Corporatism, and the Illusion of DemocracyIntroduction:Benito Mussolini, an Italian dictator known for his founding role in Fascism, once remarked, &q

The Socratic Method

@MikeFromLFE @NicksWorld @fabio

We are still European, but we're not in the EU (sadly).

@MikeFromLFE @NicksWorld @fabio the UK was, is and always will be European. EU is not the same as being European.

🦩 Plastic Garden Fauna 🦩Feb 19

@NicksWorld @MikeFromLFE @fabio

As an American, I'm jealous of that willingness to reign in the worst behaviors society can create.

If you think the EU's regulations are excessivly strict, I can promise you the reality of an unregulated hellscape of amoral predatory rent seeking is far worse.

SamuelJohnson Feb 19

@NicksWorld @MikeFromLFE @fabio Not really true. Enforcement of regulations is largely down to member states not the EU*, which has fewer employees (about 32,000) than some medium sized city councils. It's sometimes the case that national political factors influence the enforcement of regulations delegated to member states. Eg, Ireland is generally regarded as being soft on lawbreaking by US big tech companies bc of heavy US presence

*though the EU has a Court of Justice that can be appealed to

@fabio Because of EU regulation, we don't live a hellhole country like the USA.

If European capitalists were allowed to, they would exploit and abuse us the same way.

@fabio One might also point to small things like data roaming or consumer protection stuff like @iamkonstantin lists, and ask: which of these would likely have passed even without an EU? Most, I think.

Some things like enforcing standards like USB-C, *could* have happened without EU, but EU makes it more likely.

Grow Fediverse Feb 19

@fabio It's so frustrating how people take regulations for granted. When things are going fine and safe they're oblivious to how many times per day they were spared of dangerous, deadly, or costly problems.

@fabio And thanks to those EU regulations, one does not have to deal with 27 completely different sets of regulations. As soon as you displace your work or leisure a bit away from your hometown, EU regulations are a REDUCTION in paperwork, bureaucracy and headaches, compared to separate countries with separate legislations.

@fabio I mean I like the connector standardization but I still need multiple USB-C cables for devices with different power/feature requirements on cables...

@gourd @fabio That is a mess indeed. Still I think the decision to go with the (already relatively established) USB-C connector is sane.

Lenz Grimmer Feb 19

@fabio not to forget that I can pay with the same currency in all countries!

Svavar the Neurospicy Feb 19

I'm currently furious about #Brexit because I learned that the EU has a unified process for Small Claims Court.

I'm being stiffed on a holiday-related deposit by a Greek company and I need to hire lawyers to submit the claim in Greece on my behalf instead of being able to file it in the UK.

Bogdan Buduroiu Feb 19

@fabio I'm a federalist, but even I have to recognise the EU is beyond reform, Europe needs a post-EU, federal future.

A monetary union lacking fiscal and investment structures means a structurally dysfunctional EU. A EU Commission that cannot be held responsible by it's constituents is structurally dysfunctional. A democratically elected EU parliament that can't draft laws is structurally dysfunctional. The Euro being a low-value Deutsche Mark, pushing Southern, deficit nations like Italy into endless austerity (causing the rise of populism), while keeping German exports strong, is structurally dysfunctional. Having strict budget deficit rules which cause perpetual austerity after periods of economic crisis, yet loosening those deficit rules only for military spending, is structurally dysfunctional.

No amount of USB-C and no roaming fees will cover the fact that the EU is at an impasse, and the current Brussels political class is invested in the status quo, that will lead to the unravelling of the Euro and the EU itself.

@fabio The other thing is: a common set of regulations for the whole of the EU is good for corps too. It means they don't have to deal with individual countries' regulations nearly as much.

@JessTheUnstill @fabio (except, of course, those who would make money from violating the regulations, see the lobbying about relaxing the GDPR)