Mastodawn

Alan Campbell Jan 26

@benroyce @lzg that's the key feature of fascism that people must know; it always needs 'others' to vilify and that can include you.

@alanthecampbell @lzg

any student of history sees the pattern of how #fascism operates

what is happening in the #usa now is simple #ignorance of the nature of the new #nazis. we have collectively forgotten

it's #MAGA who support it but will also become its victims

and it's entitled complacent morons who don't #vote

the generation that saw #wwii understands, but they are dying off. in their place are legions of idiots who don't understand what the big deal is

they will learn the hard way

Jason Bellew,💻🤠🏳️‍🌈🐻‍❄️🖖🏻Jan 26

@benroyce @alanthecampbell @lzg Humans always take the long road to enlightenment.

When all anyone needs to do is ask, will this hurt me or my money? Because, unless, it true participatory capitalism - yes, yes it will hurt you AND your money!!!

@benroyce voting alone will not solve the problem, it will merely reset the clock.
there needs to be a more profound shift away from a model that promotes the tendencies that lead to fascism as good, from the myth of the rugged individual, to neoliberalism.

@alanthecampbell @lzg

@thegarbagebird @alanthecampbell @lzg

oh absolutely

no one thinks you vote, then unicorns and rainbows appear and everyone lives happily ever after

it's just that voting is one of those things you have to do, in a whole toolset of actions, in a much larger struggle

meanwhile, not voting simply because it isn't unicorns and rainbows magic bullet solution is stupid. no one serious thinks it is. it's simply someone's own cognitive failure to not vote based on this false assertion

@benroyce @thegarbagebird @alanthecampbell One votes for the same reason one extends a middle finger. It is a rude gesture towards the losing party.

Would you drive past the Nestlé factory without throwing up the impudent finger? Would you allow a cybertruck to drive past without a monodigit salute? Would you let Trump appear on your television without presenting the central phalanges? No. This is why we vote for the least shitty of 2 turdic candidates. Because fuck that other 1.

@log @thegarbagebird @alanthecampbell @lzg

you always vote, even if just sabotage/ vandalism

nobody thinks voting is some romantic notion of perfection, except complete fucking morons

@benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @[email protected] @lzg

J.A. Pipes ✅Jan 26

Holding your nose to vote for the least of two "turds" seems to undermine your argument. How do I vote to put better candidates on the ballot in the first place? It really does seem that we're scraping the bottom of the barrel now, but I've been around long enough to know that they can always get worse.

Mark Jan 26

@japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @lzg Get involved in local politics and promote a feeder system of decent individuals in state and local offices. Too many first time candidates think they should shoot for national office without any track record to present to voters. So voters vote for the more familiar names over and over.

Flic Jan 26

@MarkAB @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @lzg voting in national elections is the absolutely bare minimum act of democracy. If you want good candidates you need to get involved locally, vote in smaller elections, make sure bad candidates don't go unopposed in small elections. Petty local bureaucracy is where most people actually see democracy in action and draw broad conclusions ("why is my local library so badly neglected? This country is falling apart! It must be the immigrants")

Flic Jan 26

@MarkAB @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @lzg I'm British so for me it's parish and town councils and making sure the right party is organising bin collections. But I'm a big fan of Amanda's Mild Takes and this is her latest on the US version: the Republicans have been organising to get loads of boring administrative positions for decades. https://youtube.com/shorts/ECJ4D-pSOTs

Here’s why the DOJ wants voter rolls

YouTube

@japipes @log @thegarbagebird @lzg

you show up in the primaries

the thing is turn out in the primaries is abysmal

then people complain the candidates suck

the candidates suck *precisely* because the same people whining about shitty candidates don't show up in the fucking primaries

*they* are to blame

no one is going to descend from the heavens and give us good candidates

we have to show the fuck up

it's on you. me. us

no one is going to save us

we need to save ourselves

@japipes @benroyce @thegarbagebird @lzg
Easy answer: vote in the primaries/caucuses for your most-commonly-voted-for party.

Harder answer: run for office under the aegis of that party.

Hardest answer: armed rebellion that hunts down and--one way or another--disqualifies from any future eligibility to hold office all known fascists and collaborators.

@japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @lzg

How do I vote to put better candidates on the ballot in the first place?

The primaries. Disquietingly few people still, after everything that has happened, actually show up to vote in the primaries, still.

This is to some extent made worse by state laws that require declaring party affiliation, to vote specifically on that party's ballot. Requiring a single ballot with no declaration, for all parties, would help.

@mark @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @lzg

Winter Trabex Jan 26

Primaries are how you choose your winning candidate in a safe district, either way. It's not the general that matters. It's the primary.

https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/

@trabex @mark @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @lzg
Their primaries are rigged by design. DNC officials have testified in court that they have a right to do so. The court agreed. Because it's an internal party process it's not bound by the typical federal election regulations and it doesn't have to be fair. The corrupt officials will always have an advantage if you're trying to fight them in their own home.

And if you do manage to win? Congrats, you get to be part of the org that goes to war against the idea of taxing billionaires but has no problem welcoming a Nazi who is campaigning to bring back Auschwitz. Compare all their screeching about Mamdani to the complete and utter silence on Langford. THOSE are your allies? Really??

Court Concedes DNC Had the Right to Rig Primaries Against Sanders

The court affirmed that the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz held a palpable bias in favor Hillary Clinton.

Observer

@admin @trabex @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @lzg

no problem welcoming a Nazi who is campaigning to bring back Auschwitz

Who are you talking about?

@mark @trabex @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird

Kyle Langford. Read the sentence right after the one you quoted lol.

@admin @trabex @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird Oh, in California for governor? Isn't he running GOP?

@mark @trabex @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird No, he did previously, but now he's running as a Democrat for the House district 26

@admin @trabex @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird Okay. So you previously made the case that the DNC rigs the primary, but you've now provided an example of someone who is extremely undesirable as a democrat but... He'll be on the ballot anyway because he followed the party policy for getting on the ballot and their own rules don't keep him off the ballot? Because AFAICT no Democrats are encouraging him to run on their ticket; he's jumping ship because he doesn't think he can win a Repub primary.

I'm having a hard time following your argument. The DNC puts their thumb on the scale so hard that they... Can't even keep a Nazi apologist off the ticket has real "The enemy is strong execpt that they're weak" vibes.

@mark @trabex @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird

Rigging the primaries affects who wins, not who runs.

My point about Langford is that even if you overcome the rigged primary you're *still* tied to a party that's more aligned with Nazis than working class Americans. When Mamdani was running in the primaries the Dems were happy to attack him for being mean to their billionaires. But when Langford runs in their primary none of them care. They have endless hate for progressives, but none for the Nazis. Why do you want to fight like hell to overwhelm their rigged primary just to end up allied with people who will happily betray you and betray their party to protect Nazis and billionaires?

@admin @mark @trabex @japipes @log @thegarbagebird

bad people run for election, yes

and?

they win when we don't vote

you vote

that's the point

you're constructing elaborate complaints about how much things suck

yes, they suck

precisely because not enough vote

so vote

if enough do, all the shit gets washed away

if they don't, sometimes due to extended feelings of despair over how bad things are, then things stay sucking

stop constructing dungeons in your head. just fucking vote

@admin there's things you can do about that, too. state-level solutions that can force change upwards with enough adoption.
people in oregon were working on a ballot proposal to go from first preference plurality to a proportional ranked-choice system, which would help break the dnc stranglehold, as well as giving third party candidates a decisive role in the electoral process.

or if electoralism isn't your thing, there's always community engagement. work towards a dual power system less reliant on the state, that can help fash-proofing too.

@mark @japipes @benroyce @log

SlightlyCyberpunk Jan 27

@thegarbagebird @mark @japipes @benroyce @log Yep, getting other parties into the race is exactly what I am working on locally. That's my whole point here. We need a party that actually represents something, that has a platform and principles that their candidates have to actually support. A party whose leadership is elected democratically by working class voters instead of select party elites.

And I think fighting against the established Democrats to try to turn the Democratic party into that is gonna be a lot more work than just building it directly. You can't reform the Dems one state at a time, that's been tried (Nevada, 2021), the outgoing leadership will demolish everything they can on the way out the door and leave you rebuilding everything from scratch anyway -- all while your national org is fighting against you.

There are places where working with them might still make sense strategically, as a way to stall mostly, but if we want real progress we need an alternative, and we need it yesterday. So we better figure out where we can make that happen instead of telling everyone it's impossible. Establishment Dems don't think it's impossible; they have no problem running independent campaigns against Democrats!

ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES Jan 27

@admin @thegarbagebird @mark @japipes @log

Mamdani shows you can do it

Another party just means you split the left vote and hand MAGA wins

We have a really shitty FPTP voting system and until we get ranked choice voting we have to do it the Mamdani way

SlightlyCyberpunk Jan 27

@benroyce @thegarbagebird @mark @japipes @log There's plenty of places where you could split the left vote three ways and MAGA still won't win. There's plenty of places where Republicans don't even run a candidate. We don't all have to be hostages to DNC propaganda.

Mark T. Tomczak Jan 27

@admin @thegarbagebird @japipes @benroyce @log Your energy is good but you will be better served co-opting one of the two parties then trying to stand up a third if you want to influence Federal election outcomes.

Law of large numbers and a first pass the post voting system. There's basically no chance of replacing one of the two entrenched parties with a new party. The closest you can get is hollowing out an entrenched party and changing it into something else, which is what the Tea Party did to turn the fiscally conservative GOP into the fascist GOP.

@admin @japipes @benroyce @log

the gripe ibis Jan 27

@mark everyone keeps saying the issue is the first past the post system. perhaps that's something that could be explored?

Mark T. Tomczak Jan 27

@admin @trabex @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird If the party has no control over who runs, then the fact a Nazi sympathizer is running isn't a reflection on the party.

It's a reflection on them if he wins.

@admin That's a state by state fight to make primaries fair. And that requires taking control of state and local party entities.

A left-anarchist's time is likely better spent building all-new social infrastructure rather than fighting left-hating (D)s defending their state power.

@mark @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @lzg

draNgNon Jan 26

They do keep changing dates in many states, and I suspect that's a reason why

Edit: clarifying to say that's why the dates change, to drive down turnout

@draNgNon @japipes @benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @lzg I can't speak for every state, but in my own it's a very specific formula (4th Tuesday April for Presidential election years, 3rd Tuesday in May in all other years).

The General Assembly can move it, but I wouldn't call "twice in the past 20 years" "they keep changing it."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/democrats-big-fight-state-goes-first-2024-presidential-primary-rcna57602

draNgNon Jan 27

@mark there is some weird jockeying for earlier primaries with some states, and they change every 4 year cycle.

you can reply saying 'well that's not intended to drive down turnout' but well it's a contributor IMO. I recollect a similar big fight in 2020, and 2016.

anyhow I am not that engaged with this thread, just answering the notification. sorry if someone else already said this.

@japipes
@benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @lzg

Democrats’ next big fight: Which state goes first in the 2024 presidential primary

With the midterm elections barely in the rearview mirror, the competition is heating up among states trying to move up in the presidential primary lineup.

NBC News

Stephen Bannasch (316 ppm)Jan 26

@japipes

I’ll always choose based on harm reduction.

@benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @lzg

@stepheneb @japipes @log @thegarbagebird @lzg

and that's really all you can do. forever

people waiting on perfection are clueless

if that sounds bleak, the point is if you relentless iterate on harm reduction, you eventually wind up at pretty good. never perfect of course

those sitting things out wonder why things suck so much and it's due to MAGA, and also them, sitting things out

@benroyce @log @thegarbagebird @alanthecampbell @lzg

It's very simple. At this point, the reason he can't be impeached is not enough people vote for reps that will impeach him.

That's it. That's the whole story.

There's a long, hard, messy fight to resist if he gets to keep power for his whole term. But if people who think he shouldn't have that power actually voted for folks who would remove him, that fight could end much sooner.

mpark Jan 26

@thegarbagebird @benroyce @alanthecampbell @lzg Voting alone isn't enough, but we still need to do it. It's what we call in math proofs necessary but not sufficient.

#democracy #nokings #voteblue

Mister Shade Jan 26

@mpark @thegarbagebird @benroyce @alanthecampbell @lzg Yes. Voting is, and will always be, a part of the solution.

There are many other things that can be done on the road to the midterms, of course. Donating. Demonstrating. Protesting. Advocating. Being hands that help.

Addendum: telling people there won’t be midterms doesn’t help. Instead, tell people how you plan to help ensure we have them.

Chris Jan 26

@mpark @thegarbagebird @benroyce @alanthecampbell @lzg it's a ladder. want to halt fascism? vote. want to reverse the damage? vote AND organise. want fascism binned for good and ice out? all of the above AND coordinated industrial action. none of them preclude the others.

@ASprinkleofSage @mpark @thegarbagebird @alanthecampbell @lzg

a lot of people look to easy permanent solutions

doesn't exist for fascism

it's a matter of maintenance, constantly taking out the garbage

there will always be ignorants and bigots and someone trying to seize power off of them

this fight is forever

constant effort. iterative effort

here's the thing:

it becomes easy

unless you stall and delay

then it consumes you

magic perfection solution does not exist and never will

Chris Jan 26

@benroyce @mpark @thegarbagebird @alanthecampbell @lzg last line - bang on. there's not one single solution and too many people are fixated waiting for it to turn up. figjt hard, fight varied, fight often. same goes for climate

@ASprinkleofSage @mpark @alanthecampbell @lzg

@benroyce absolutely, hence my comment about resetting the clock. a successful vote will move fascism back one turn. altering underlying material and structural issues will move fascism back several turns. even things like codifying so many of the unwritten rules and gentleman’s agreements that govern the process of government, all the stuff that mcconnell did in the first term that made everyone go ‘you can't do that,’ and then they did it because it turns out you just can do that, it's just considered vulgar.

Pino Carafa Jan 26

@benroyce @ASprinkleofSage @mpark @thegarbagebird @alanthecampbell @lzg I think one very unfortunate thing about how WWII played out was that people were SO shocked about what the Nazis had done that they convinced themselves that it could "never happen again" and it certainly "couldn't happen HERE". And of course for at least 50 years fascism was not viable in the "Western World". But it never truly went away and now much of "the West" is asleep.

@benroyce @alanthecampbell @lzg

@mpark i agree. the thing i have been saying in my real-life conversations is ‘vote but don't only vote.’ like, if that's all you have the social, cultural or economic surplus to do, then do it. but if you can do more, see if you can do more.