Mastodawn

David Llewellyn-Jones Jan 18

Georg Weissenbacher

Over the last year, I've wondered how to reduce my dependency on US tech giants. Especially for mobile phones, this is quite difficult - you either go for a de-googled system such as #GrapheneOS (but might end up having to buy that device from Google) or you accept some compromises (regarding the quality of the device or functions of the OS).

I've finally decided that perfect is the enemy of good and bought a #fairphone5 on which I installed #ubuntutouch. While a number of things are still missing (#Signal - @signalapp and banking apps, for instance), a lot of the stuff that I do on a daily basis already works (phone calls, text messages, emails, calendar, podcasts, photos, web browsing, Mastodon, and Matrix, for instance). Yes, I had to change my habits a bit, and I do still depend on a secondary device for some Apps, but overall, I'm quite happy. I am confident that in the not so distant future, #ubuntutouch and #postmarketos will become viable alternatives to #iOS and #android

And I haven't enjoyed playing with an electronic device that much in a long time.

MalcolmMielle Jan 13

@GeorgWeissenbacher @signalapp Ubuntu touch is still alive??

Georg Weissenbacher Jan 13

@MalcolmMielle yes, it is maintained by volunteers (many in Germany and Austria) and they just released a new version based on 24.04 LTS. I am posting this from my very alive Fairphone running UT 🙂

@GeorgWeissenbacher @signalapp you might be able to get Android apps to work via Waydroid, according to this video https://youtu.be/HjfwyMuLnPo?si=OiM3BLh3lw8MzehZ

Ubuntu Touch Honest Review 2025 | UT on Fairphone 4 | How UT Holds up as a Main Driver

YouTube

Georg Weissenbacher Jan 13

@frumbly yes, that works, but my goal is to avoid Android as much as possible. My current plan is to set up a #matrix instance with a #signal bridge.

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@frumbly @GeorgWeissenbacher @signalapp Waydroid is a fork of ancient software with Android's standard privacy and security model and protections largely disabled. The app sandbox isn't present and it has many unpatched vulnerabilities, although the same applies to Ubuntu Touch and Fairphone. It's not a good way to run Android apps. The proper way to run them on another OS would be using hardware-based virtualization rather than using a container on an OS where it can't work properly.

@GeorgWeissenbacher @signalapp Also have a FP5, have to use android atm due to work, but it's great to know that it will live long and prosper thanks to the heroes that keep improving linuxmobile!

Georg Weissenbacher Jan 13

@stovis the #fairphone6 even aims to provide support for the mainstream Linux kernel (Ubuntu Touch depends on an Android Linux kernel for now), so there is hope for a fully open #mobilelinux im the future.

@GeorgWeissenbacher Nice! Phones are computers after all. It's so silly that we have been collectively gaslighted to think about devices as "this is a gaming console/TV/phone/etc" when in reality it's all computers, and should be able to run any program.

Georg Weissenbacher Jan 13

@stovis it does feel very liberating to run #Emacs on my phone 🙂

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@GeorgWeissenbacher @stovis Emacs runs fine outside an OS based on a desktop Linux distribution. You didn't gain the ability to run it by moving to a Fairphone or Ubuntu Touch. You could run it on GrapheneOS natively and also in a desktop Linux OS with the hardware-based virtualization. It's really the other way around when it comes to being able to run more software.

Georg Weissenbacher Feb 15

@GrapheneOS @stovis look, I just like tinkering with a lot of different things. I will try GrapheneOS, too (good to hear it runs Emacs 😀), and I am very much looking forward to your OEM device (more choice is always better).

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@GeorgWeissenbacher @stovis No, that's not really how it works. They depend on the kernel from Fairphone which is not specifically an Android kernel.

Android works fine with the latest mainline and LTS kernels from kernel.org. It doesn't require a special kind of Linux kernel but rather only has optional downstream features.

It's Fairphone's choices which led to it being on an end-of-life Linux 5.4 kernel branch which they weren't updating before the 5.4 end-of-life in December 2025 anyway.

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@GeorgWeissenbacher @stovis Fairphones not receiving updates to the kernel doesn't have much to do with Android. Android devices can be on 6.1, 6.6 and 6.12. They can move to new kernel branches if the OEM chooses to do so and a growing number devices are doing that, not only Pixels. Alternate operating systems inherit the lack of kernel updated and delayed/incomplete driver/firmware updates unless they drastically move away from what's officially provided/supported/tested by Fairphone.

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@GeorgWeissenbacher @stovis It's entirely possible to use a newer kernel branch whether it's an AOSP-based OS or not but it's a lot of work which is meant to be done by the OEM and their hardware partners to keep providing updates to the device for more than a year or so. Linux kernel LTS branches are back to only 2 years of support so there's an expectation that vendors are moving to a new kernel branch. Most OEMs and Linux distributions aren't doing it but it's what the Linux project expects.

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@stovis @GeorgWeissenbacher @signalapp Fairphone 5 already has an end-of-life Linux 5.4 kernel branch, wasn't ever getting basic kernel updates and has had problematic driver/firmware updates from the beginning which are degrading over time. The situation is worse in Ubuntu Touch than the stock Fairphone OS since they lag far behind both the problematic Fairphone updates and to an extent the Ubuntu updates too.

Linux doesn't mean glibc, systemd and GNOME. Android isn't somehow not Linux.

Gerrit Unschleff Jan 13

@GeorgWeissenbacher In fact same experience to me.

Nichlas Krook Jan 16

Interesting with Ubuntu touch!

I have pre-ordered a Jolla phone with Sailfish OS

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@nkrook94 @GeorgWeissenbacher Unlike Android's AOSP, SailfishOS is largely closed source for the parts which are specific to it. Most of the user interface and application layer of SailfishOS is closed source. It also has atrocious privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project. You're making a lot of sacrifices to use something that's closed source instead of open source along with being far in the opposite direction for privacy and security in many different substantial ways.

richarddebruin Feb 19

@GrapheneOS @nkrook94 @GeorgWeissenbacher ios is also largely closed source

Kasper Nymand Jan 18

@GeorgWeissenbacher I'm exploring my options too. Currently, I have a Google Pixel 9 Pro XL. I've changed my Launcher on it. What is holding me back from flashing another OS on it, is exactly the lack of official personal identification apps, banking apps, mobile payment apps, etc. And I'm worried if the camera will be as good, etc. Next time I am indeed considering a Fairphone (with /e/OS). I love the design of Fairphone 6. I've had a Nokia before, but unfortunately they rely on Android One.

Georg Weissenbacher Feb 15

@kaspernymand well, if you are already on a Pixel, why not go for #GrapheneOS? @GrapheneOS

@GeorgWeissenbacher @signalapp I tried it on a spare phone, but couldn't really integrate my keepass database...

@GeorgWeissenbacher for the banking and other android apps, I would suggest looking into running Waydroid:

It's a container (roughly similar to docker) inside which you run some LineageOS (it's based on AOSP - the opensource bits of android) and install microG (open source reimplementation of the Google Play Services that lots of App rely upon) and Aurora (opensource reimplementation of Google Play Store)
...

@GeorgWeissenbacher ...
When you need those app, you can start the container, do stuff, then shut down.

The operating system I daily drive on my Linux phones (I run SailfishOS) offers something similar (Jolla calls their container "AppSupport») for the few apps I can't do without.

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@dryak @GeorgWeissenbacher Unlike Android's AOSP, SailfishOS is largely closed source for the parts which are specific to it. Most of the user interface and application layer of SailfishOS is closed source. It also has atrocious privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project. You're making a lot of sacrifices to use something that's closed source instead of open source along with being far in the opposite direction for privacy and security in many different substantial ways.

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@dryak @GeorgWeissenbacher Android distributions are Linux distributions too. Bringing glibc and systemd to mobile as SailfishOS is doing is a much different thing than bringing Linux to mobile where it's already dominant. Android isn't somehow not a Linux distribution and it runs fine with kernel.org mainline and LTS kernels. There are Android distributions more closely following Linux releases than SailfishOS. Android and SailfishOS are both Linux with much different userspaces.

Georg Weissenbacher Jan 18

@dryak the banking Apps refuse to run under Waydroid (they detect that the bootloader is unlocked).

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@dryak @GeorgWeissenbacher Android is open source and the Android Open Source Project is the upstream project. AOSP is Android, not bits of it.

microG's approach doesn't actually avoid closed source Google Play code in apps and the services.

Waydroid is a fork of ancient software with Android's standard privacy and security model and protections largely disabled. The app sandbox isn't present and it has many unpatched vulnerabilities, although the same applies to Ubuntu Touch and Fairphone.

@GeorgWeissenbacher @signalapp There is a very promising Signal client called Flare (https://mobile.schmidhuberj.de/flare), the only thing missing for me are calls.

Flare | Schmiddi on Mobile

Georg Weissenbacher Jan 19

@vad @signalapp there has been a number of attempts to implement a third-party Signal client (most prominently axolotl https://github.com/axolotl-chat/axolotl), but that seems to require very frequent updates to retain compatibility.

GitHub - axolotl-chat/axolotl: A Signal compatible cross plattform client written in Go, Rust and Vuejs

A Signal compatible cross plattform client written in Go, Rust and Vuejs - axolotl-chat/axolotl

GitHub

richarddebruin Feb 3

@GeorgWeissenbacher I read somewhere that the Signal desktop flatpak should work?

Georg Weissenbacher Feb 3

@richarddebruin there is an ongoing effort to port the Signal desktop client to UT (https://open-store.io/app/signalut.pparent), which works well enough for me for now.

OpenStore

OpenStore - The open source app store for Ubuntu Touch

OpenStore

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@GeorgWeissenbacher @signalapp Fairphones have atrocious privacy and security, as does Ubuntu Touch. It has little to do with GrapheneOS and isn't at all in the same space. It's not a safe device and you shouldn't put any important data on it. Having years of unpatched Linux kernel, driver and firmware patches is not safe regardless of what you've been told. You've moved to an OS and hardware with drastically worse privacy and security. It's falling further behind over time, not catching up.

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@GeorgWeissenbacher @signalapp Fairphones are designed and manufactured in China and are heavily based on US tech. Qualcomm is an American company and the SoC is the vast majority of the hardware and firmware complexity. Fairphone isn't designing, manufacturing or assembling the devices or even nearly any of the software for their stock OS. It's a brand which sells bottom of the barrel hardware as a premium product with inaccurate claims about updates, sustainability, privacy and security.

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@GeorgWeissenbacher @signalapp GrapheneOS uses the devices that it does because they're the only ones available where an alternate OS can provide a reasonable level of privacy and security. Most devices have atrocious updates and are missing important security protections needed to defend against widespread real world exploits. iPhones and Pixels are some of the few devices with reasonable security. That's not a limitation of GrapheneOS but rather of most of the available hardware today.

GrapheneOS Feb 15

@GeorgWeissenbacher @signalapp A major Android OEM reached out to us in June 2025 and have been gradually scaling up working on devices meeting the hardware requirements for GrapheneOS. They're moving to providing far better updates and hardware-based security features. It requires a lot of work and wasn't possible to achieve for their main set of 2026 devices so it's going to be available in 2027 instead. We won't take shortcuts where users would be far worse off than if they used an iPhone.