I'm looking into books not just about #ADHD, but specifically about the use of #psychostimulant drugs to treat it. I was hoping to find professional reference books. Instead, what I'm finding, overwhelmingly, are strident denunciations of #ADHD as unreal, and of the drugs as tools of diabolical mind control. The atmosphere of this discourse, the vibe, absolutely creeps me out. It's dismaying. It's worse — much worse! — than anti-addiction drug-war literature; many of THOSE people are surprisingly positive about what they see as responsible, legitimate use of scheduled drugs under prescription. Instead, the anti-#ADHD-drug literature is more reminiscent of the intensely toxic atmosphere of two other social pathologies we've become wearisomely familiar with: #antivax, and the "#autism overdiagnosis" school of thought that tries to deny the very reality of our identity.

Indeed, I suspect that at bottom the motivation behind all three social movements — #antivax, anti-#ADHD, and anti-#autism — is the same: denial of the Other. Whether it's plagues or neurodivergence, these people want above all to deny the reality of anything that would force them to make drastic alterations to their lifestyles. It's one step away from wishing other ethnic groups didn't exist.

@autistics

@dedicto @autistics
To my mind it's the same reasoning as the anti-trans push. Fear of the other and because autism/adhd and trans both require accepting someone without truly being able to understand them, attacking the lowest hanging fruit first.

@pathfinder @autistics Interesting! In quite different contexts, I'm starting to realize just how desperately toxic it is to insist on understanding something before acknowledging its existence. It is critically important to be prepared to do the opposite: to accept realities that we cannot presently understand.

My wife and I recently watched "The Most Reluctant Convert", a dramatization of the intellectual journey of C. S. Lewis, ultimately based on his autobiography "Surprised by Joy". Watching the movie, and thinking back to my reading of the book, I realized how, at certain crucial turning points, Lewis's thinking was driven by insistence on accepting only what he found comprehensible. Thus it was that a brilliant and deeply skeptical intellect, who should by rights have been a champion of rationalism, ended up as an apologist for a vile and pernicious body of traditional superstition.

I'm also currently reading Maria Rosa Antognazza's biography of Leibniz, and before that I had read Alexandre Koyré's "From the Closed World to the Infinite Universe". These books shed light on a controversy between two of the greatest intellects in history — Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz and Isaac Newton — over the nature of gravity. Leibniz, like Descartes before him, insisted on understanding how gravity worked as a condition of accepting its reality — and ended up with some beliefs about the nature of matter that rate as quite bizarre, both by the standards of the 18th century and of the 21st. Newton famously replied "Hypotheses non fingo", usually translated as "I feign no hypotheses". By which he meant: "Observations of heavenly and earthly bodies have revealed certain regularities in their motions which cannot be explained by direct contacts among them, or by any other type of causal interaction that we can presently understand. But I can describe those regularities by laws stated in the language of mathematics. That is the basis of my law of universal gravitation. It would be pointless to add guesses as to why these regularities hold."

In the 20th century, Einstein — building on two and a half centuries of science in the Newtonian tradition — finally did come up with some reasonable hypotheses as to why gravity exists and how it works, in his general theory of relativity. But science would never have gotten to that point if it had insisted on starting out, in the late 17th and early 18th century, by "feigning hypotheses" about the nature of gravity. Newton was right: sometimes you just need to accept and describe first, and explain later.

Now if we could just get social scientists to accept what physicists had to learn centuries ago.

@dedicto @autistics
Indeed. Beyond anything else, true understanding may not always be possible. Acceptance that it is, even if you don't and can't know why, is always possible
@pathfinder @autistics I even think that's why certain neurotypical biomedical scientists, and their allies of the stripe of #AutismSpeaks and the National Council on Severe Autism (#NCSA), spend so much effort "feigning hypotheses" as to the "causes of autism": they aren't willing to accept our existence without first reductively pathologizing us as the product of some identifiable genetic defect.

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

Hmmm but I like that part. Kinda hoping they get better at it… seeking more accurate labels and help so I can advocate for myself easier without others with the same label feeling like its about them.

Im noticing my conditions manifest differently than a lot of people online and in groups… similar symptoms… greater severity… additional comorbids that pile on high.

@Energetic_Nova @pathfinder @autistics I do indeed believe we need better subtyping of autism. My theory of #kaleidotropy is an effort in that direction. But we're unlikely to get anything good from the #NCSA crowd. Their quest for the "causes of autism" is a search-and-destroy mission. They want to find a way to prevent any more of us from being born. Secondarily, they want to show that our autism is not "severe" so we don't merit any help.

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

I am disinterested in cause but interested in genetics for complex diagnosis reasons.

I want more efforts on what helps. I like your OP post cause yes, I feel a major factor is a refusal to change. But there is a group of autistic people who dont want to be seen or treated differently… and then there is me who keeps reaching for treatment option ideas that dont exist…. (Yet)

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

Wow these people are sad… anyways… im getting that barbie for a level 3 autistic who will love it like all his other dolls.

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

I am excluded from public life and Im happy about autistic Barbie…. 🤷‍♀️

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

From their horrible article

“Nevertheless, the version of autism presented to the public through toys, marketing, and media overwhelmingly reflects the smallest and most advantaged segment. This portrayal is tech savvy, functionally typical, cognitively gifted, emotionally legible, and socially palatable. It reassures the public that autism is manageable, tidy, and compatible with existing social norms.”

What!!! Its an ACC device! She is non-speaking!

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

“Many in this population are left languishing without a single friend outside their immediate family. However, these realities do not appear in celebratory “diversity” campaigns. They do not translate easily into merchandise. They are fundamentally incompatible with narratives that frame autism primarily as a cultural identity rather than a disabling condition.“

NOBODY SAID THIS ABOUT DOWNS SYNDROME BARBIE or BLIND BARBIE!!!

Da F! I am in that position!

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

I fit most of their descriptive words in their article! And my housemate fits all of them! And guess what!? My Housemate is happier than I am!

@Energetic_Nova @dedicto @autistics
All of this is why it took me, a very late realised autistic who could mask well, a while to get my head around the fact, that no matter how it presents for us it is first and foremost a disability. How and to what extent by environmental factors being the only variable.

@pathfinder @Energetic_Nova @autistics Admittedly I'm still very new to all of this, and these "severe autism" groups haven't been my principal focus as I've tried to learn more, but AFAICT so far, they aren't really groups for autistics at all; they're "autism mom" groups, focused first and foremost on the needs of caregivers, not of autistics, "severe" or otherwise. And they are basically HATE GROUPS and self-pity parties. The agenda appears to be:

(1) Divide and conquer: find justifications for treating "severe autism" as a fundamentally different phenomenon from any autism that shows potential for anything positive.

(2) Paint "non-severe" autistics as basically just lifestylers who are essentially normal and need little or no support; paint autistic self-advocacy as a distraction from the needs of poor struggling autism moms saddled with the care of "severe" autistics.

(3) Paint "severe" autistics as subhuman monsters with little or no potential for anything good, so as to justify whatever treatment their caregivers feel is necessary to minimize the burden they impose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Council_on_Severe_Autism

National Council on Severe Autism - Wikipedia

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

The thing is, I feel straddled between the two positions and have reached conclusions like: you are both wrong. And. You are both right.

I think they are right that there is a subsection that tries to define autism as not a disability but just a different way of thinking and I think this is annoying to belittling of disabled people.

But then you see how in your second point they do that to all other autistics….

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

I do not enjoy this two box position. I think people want a label where they can easily communicate their needs and the vast gap that is now proven to have genetic differences between 4 main subtypes.

I think we need better labels that quickly communicate needs and/or challenges. The autism label feels dysfunctional… like a junk taxon. I too hate calling and finding out services are for a different autistic population than I am in.

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

I really want a label where I say it? And I dont have to specify so much. Im filling out so much paperwork…

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

If you were dealing with government…. You wouldnt want some vague label where people make you justify every need cause their cousin makes 100k a year at google and they are autistic. I got denied disability twice for the existence of tech jobs.

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

Gosh im so sad about this. Its absurdly hard to find any services and expectations for people like me in neither of the boxes.

Who feels alienated by both movements but feels happy when someone autistic gets a cool job or services they need.

And I hate how I feel but I didnt go in for an autism diagnosis… I went in for ADHD and walked out with “significant symptoms of autism” and a realization that everyone can tell too. Its not how many describe theirs.

@Energetic_Nova @pathfinder @autistics The classification system DEFINITELY needs work, to be sure. And people need to understand that the potential for high accomplishment and the need for high levels of support are two completely separate issues.

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

I think they are separate and related and contributing.

For example, i have high intelligence that hurts me if I am not properly engaged, and struggle with task initiation. The same programs wont work for me. I can’t just watch disney all day and be happy.

@Energetic_Nova @dedicto @pathfinder @autistics I'm one of those poster autistics that look like they're doing really well even by NT standards, and few know how hard the dealing with people part of my life is, but I have always felt a kinship with who they'd call severe autistics. I felt that even before I knew the word "autistic" and certainly before I understood what that connection was.

I want a word for that kinship. I don't object to more specific labels if they're helpful to some people

@BernieDoesIt @Energetic_Nova @pathfinder @autistics I'm like that too. And it INFURIATES me that my success, such as it is, would EVER be used as an excuse for denying needed services to ANYONE else, on the ground that they could supposedly be like me if they "really tried". It also infuriates me that so much of the exercise of my positive abilities had to be devoted to staving off the various disasters that otherwise could easily have befallen my bewildered autistic self in a social world designed by and for #OrcsWithPretensions. #OWP
@Energetic_Nova @dedicto @pathfinder @autistics The idea of the “spectrum” was precisely to prevent two-box thinking.

@Energetic_Nova @pathfinder @autistics Important points to keep in mind:

(1) The existing concept of #disability is problematic, in that it links the amount of help someone needs with their potential for achievement. But someone who has very high potential can still need a LOT of help to realize that potential. The distinction between "severe" and "non-severe" #autism overlooks the possibility that one and the same person can have very high support needs AND very high potential.

(2) When someone's potential IS limited, it isn't generally clear exactly WHAT is limiting it. My hypothesis is that autism itself NEVER severely limits potential, although it may impose very high support needs. But autism can commonly coexist with other types of intellectual disabilities that DO limit potential. Severe intellectual DISABILITY, yes; severe AUTISM, no.

(3) Caregivers of #autistics — and, even more so, mental health professionals evaluating autistics — have a track record of grossly underestimating their potential. Even #TempleGrandin's parents were once told by a doctor that they might as well commit her to an institution and forget about her. (Fortunately, her parents didn't accept that.)

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

1. I think this ignores reality being discussed about aggressive, nonverbal, intellectually disabled, ect stereotype. I know my housemate has needs that cant be handled by just a normal person to keep them alive. And he needs help toileting and bathing directly. He cannot vote. He really does lack a voice. And I see this. Im struggling why they (these orgs) cant see I have unmet needs as well. Which like your position denies my needs for potential… both right.

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

2. I think this is true when you ignore there are known disorders now that used to be classified as severe autism and are now their own label. And we now have the 4 more potential new things. I will volunteer myself to have a diff label as I am not attached to it. I just want my needs considered and think that’s what most are still stuck doing as no one is being helped unless their parents won a legal battle.

@dedicto @pathfinder @autistics

3. Hard disagree since you are a insulting two professions where most of the people are neurodivergent. Usually adhd. I dont think that is just my experience. And remember a lot of why a autism parent is so ridged is because they are probably someone with traits similar to their own child.