An example of the "just point it at anything" aspect of #kaleidotropy: I'm an inpatient pharmacist licensed in four states of the #USA, and all of my licensing boards have continuing pharmacy education (CPE) requirements. When not actively engaged in accumulating CPE hours, I usually dread an upcoming CPE license renewal cycle as an annoying chore — because it will require me to divert effort from the many, many other things I'd rather be doing. But once I'm past the initial hurdle of getting started — and especially once I start searching for suitable CPEs and selecting them from various possibilities — my #kaleidotropic interest system is engaged, and the same activity that had so recently seemed like a dismal chore quickly takes on the aspect first of a hobby, and then of an addiction. There are so many fascinating topics to choose from. I just have to have THAT one — and THAT one — and THAT one! (A professor in office hours once told me: "You're like a kid in a candy store!")

I usually end up doing far more CPE hours than my licensing boards require — and having to remind myself that I need to get back to all the OTHER activities I've been neglecting.

@avuko @autistics @adelinej My comparison was with the "relaxed stability" (a euphemism for instability!) intentionally designed into the F-16 fighter jet because of its contribution to high performance! #kaleidotropy

I'm aware of double empathy theory and I intend to look further into it, but my guess is that it can't fully explain our communication difficulties. I have difficulties in understanding other people generally, autistic or not.

But in understanding each other, there's at least one important obstacle we DON'T face, that neurotypicals must overcome when they try to understand us: failure of the #EnvironmentalYoke. They assume they'll be able to understand us intuitively, the way they understand each other — and when they try it on us, NOTHING REGISTERS. To their special mind-sensors, we're invisible! It must be a terrifying experience for them. As if we were Ringwraiths. If you've seen the Peter Jackson movies of "The Lord of the Rings", think of the confrontation on Weathertop, before Frodo has put on the Ring of Power. The Lord of the Nazgûl turns to face Frodo, and you expect to see his face — and there's NOTHING THERE. Just a black void within his black hood.

No wonder they compare us to robots and chimpanzees. That isn't the reality of our existence — but I suspect that for many neurotypicals, it IS the reality of THEIR EXPERIENCE OF US. We're visitors from the Uncanny Valley!

https://zeroes.ca/@dedicto/114562251449610899

Douglas Edwards :neurodiv: (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] My comparison is with the F-16 fighter jet, which was the first aircraft deliberately designed to be unstable (the engineering euphemism is "relaxed stability", but it's instability!). The original Wright flyer had been unstable, though not by design, and was barely controllable even for short flights at slow speed. The engineers of the F-16 believed that it would be better at fast maneuvers if the airframe accentuated and reinforced, rather than opposed and neutralized, small deviations from the current flight path. But how can you possibly fly such a thing? Answer: YOU can't — but an automated fly-by-wire system can. That's why this approach to airframe design was not attempted until the early 1970s: earlier aeronautical engineering would have been unable to offer effective accommodation for its disability. So which was the "real" F-16? The grotesquely unstable machine that required thousands of microadjustments per second to its control surfaces just to take off safely? Or the terrifyingly agile air-superiority fighter that asked no quarter from anything that flew? It was of course both. That's how absurd it is to think that disability, in the sense of a condition requiring accommodation, sets ANY limit on high performance when the appropriate accommodation is offered. So am I saying my brain is an F-16? Not exactly. Maybe, at most, an F-16 alpha-test prototype that needs some serious work on its fly-by-wire system. But in the broader outlines, I believe this is what neurodivergence, especially #kaleidotropic autism, is fundamentally about. Trying to design for high performance poses some challenges that you don't face if you're aiming merely for a Cessna 152.

zeroes.ca
@Energetic_Nova @pathfinder @autistics I do indeed believe we need better subtyping of autism. My theory of #kaleidotropy is an effort in that direction. But we're unlikely to get anything good from the #NCSA crowd. Their quest for the "causes of autism" is a search-and-destroy mission. They want to find a way to prevent any more of us from being born. Secondarily, they want to show that our autism is not "severe" so we don't merit any help.
@pathfinder @MOULE @autistics My theory of #kaleidotropy — which originated as a variant of the #monotropism theory — combines these two, with the twist that the intensity of the perceived world originates within us, not merely from failure to filter outside inputs.
@autistics I'm still reading Russell ⁨#Barkley⁩'s "Taking Charge of Adult ADHD" (2nd ed., 2022) — or rather, trying to. It's getting difficult for me to handle more than a page or two at a time. The problem isn't boredom (my #kaleidotropy makes me essentially immune to that) nor complexity of the material (Barkley is quite a good expositor). It's exasperation and outright anger, to the point of having fantasies of throwing the book across the room. The combination of arrogant, condescending neuronormativity with conspicuously sloppy conceptual reasoning makes this book more infuriating than ANYTHING I've yet read about autism, from ANY perspective. That includes Simon Baron-Cohen, and even one paper I read by a group of #ABA torture therapy apologists. I hope this book is not typical of #ADHD literature in general. If it is, studying ADHD is going to be a hell of a chore.
@shion_sonozaki67 @SilverArrows This is also an example of why I wouldn't trade my #kaleidotropy (a form of #AuDHD — the term is my own) for anything, despite all the problems it can cause. Sometimes weird oceanic life really is the higher priority.

@Ferrous @autoperipatetikos @actuallyautistic This is true; precursors of the changes you've made in the theory of #monotropism were already present in the original version. And I just finished Wenn Lawson's "The Passionate Mind" (the first, and so far only, book [as opposed to articles!] on autism I've read since my self-diagnosis), where he notes that #monotropic autistics CAN actually distribute attention effectively IF their interest is engaged.

But to me, that's an indication that the relevant factor is the #autotropic decoupling of attention from the social and physical environment — rather than restriction or narrowness or singleness of attention or interest in any sense, however liberally interpreted. Decoupling of attention and interest from the world should, so to speak, be treated as an axiom definitive of the subject matter, rather than a theorem to be derived.

And #monotropic attention is a special case, not a fully general theory. I felt it necessary to introduce the concept of #kaleidotropy because the phenomenology of my experience has been very different from what Wenn Lawson reports. It's much closer to what Kelter reports — except that what he experiences as a curse, to me is very much a blessing: "Every possible thought is instantly ten alternate thoughts that quickly grow to many more".

Kelter, M. Being hyperverbal is a real — and disabling — autistic experience. Thinking Person's Guide to Autism. 2019 July 11. Available from: https://thinkingautismguide.com/2019/07/being-hyper-verbal-is-realand.html

Being HyperVerbal Is A Real—And Disabling—Autistic Experience — THINKING PERSON'S GUIDE TO AUTISM

Hyperverbal expression, whether it is verbalized or experienced internally, is autism and it is a disability.

THINKING PERSON'S GUIDE TO AUTISM

@autoperipatetikos @adelinej @Dianora @pathfinder @Tooden @filmfreak75 @actuallyautistic This article by @Ferrous is my principal source for the newer version of the theory of #monotropism. It is impossible to emphasize too much: I see this theory as by far the most useful and promising of current theories of autism, and I see my theory of #kaleidotropy as an evolutionary further development of it, NOT as a wholesale rejection of the entire approach.

Murray, Fergus. Me and monotropism: a unified theory of autism. Psychologist. 2018 Nov 30. Available from: https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/me-and-monotropism-unified-theory-autism.

Me and Monotropism: A unified theory of autism | BPS

Fergus Murray – science teacher, writer and 'autist' – on single attention and associated cognition in autism; a theory with a family connection… Now with 2025 update.

BPS

@autoperipatetikos @adelinej @Dianora @pathfinder @Tooden @filmfreak75 @actuallyautistic One mnemonic for the generalizing step from just #monotropism to #autotropy, which includes #kaleidotropy:

A #kaleidoscope and a plain tunnel have one thing in common: they both close off the view of the outside world.

@autoperipatetikos @adelinej @Dianora @pathfinder @Tooden @filmfreak75 @actuallyautistic There's a great deal more to it. The later theory of #monotropism tends to draw distinctions between restriction of interests at a single time versus restriction of interests over a lifetime; the former can be restricted while the latter very much is not. And similar fine distinctions.

But my theory of #kaleidotropy, although an outgrowth and further development of #monotropism theory, goes beyond even these newer versions, primarily in two ways, both of which to my knowledge represent new departures:

(1) For at least some of us, the idea that our interests are in ANY way narrow or restricted — except transiently on SOME occasions — is not just in need of refinement or clarification, it's completely wrong, and even backwards. From our point of view, it is the interests of NEUROTYPICALS that are narrow and restricted! Note that this observation invalidates not only current versions of the theory of monotropism, but also the official DSM criteria for diagnosis of autism.

(2) The fundamental difference between neurotypical and autistic interest and focus of attention has nothing directly to do with wide or narrow focus. It is that neurotypical interest and attention is strongly yoked to the social and physical environment (#ecotropic), while autistic interest and attention is NOT yoked to the environment, but is autonomous (#autotropic). Classical monotropism theory acknowledges, and even emphasizes, this difference, but sees it not as fundamental, but rather as a downstream effect of restricted focus; autistics do not focus on the environment because they CANNOT — too much is going on for their restricted attentional focus to handle. But this #autotropic decoupling from the environment can occur even in the complete absence of any quantitative limitations on the amount of attention available. #Autotropism, not limited interest and attention, is fundamental. #Autotropic attention and interest is simply under far fewer constraints than #ecotropic attention and interest. It can indeed be more restricted (#monotropic), but it can also be LESS restricted — wider-ranging and more rapidly labile (#kaleidotropic).