Mastodawn

chainlinq Dec 28

Jan Wildeboer 😷

You might not notice it in your peer group, when you are not their age, but my daughter showed me that many 20-30yr olds are switching to dumb phones, are cancelling their Facebook/tiktok/twitter accounts and are discovering libraries and printed books. As a conscious decision. Not all of them, but quite a lot and it's growing.

1/3

Jan Wildeboer 😷

They are not anti-technology. They have gaming PCs and quite some of them are picking up software development, 3D printing etc. But they have recognised how mobile devices are sucking up their time, energy and attention span. They also have lost trust in social media and are aware that every move is being analysed. In a world that needs us all to move around with open eyes and ears because we have real world problems to solve. I am learning from them, not the other way round. Good!

2/3

Jan Wildeboer 😷

It's not a coordinated movement. It's leaderless (for now, and I hope it stays that way) and very diverse. More a set of shared principles and desires that is continuously evolving in many directions. Mistakes are made. Discussed. Typically in person (and sober, alcohol consumption is not "cool" anymore ;) Oh, and saying "I asked ChatGPT" will not go over well :)

3/3

I recently added an old friend to a signal group of six people who studied together. He left the group after one message from his side which said that he would really enjoy to meet in real life.
It felt a little bit rude. Maybe somewhat extreme.
But maybe he has a point. Focus on the people and the environment around you.

It made me think. Did not come to a conclusion yet. Probably there is none.

Marianne Dec 29

@davidbeck @jwildeboer I mean, people who want to meet also need to be contactable. I don't have any time for the 'people can't communicate anymore' type opinions from people who just dislike texting. That's allowed, you can have that opinion. But if you don't want to meet people where they are (re what they're comfortable communication styles are) AND still want to see them in person? You write the letters, or whatever your alternative is.

@jwildeboer Sounds too good to become true but I also notice a certain weariness in many of the "newer stuff" out there - also in my/our generation. Maybe we are already full up with all the things becoming more and more distractive these days... A good sign and maybe the right movement at the proper time! 🙂

Fried Chicken Dec 28

@jwildeboer I think that whatever we do going forward, decentralization needs to be core to it. No central leadership. A Hydra.

Slowmorris Dec 28

@jwildeboer
Yeah I feel what you say. I'm 27 and a huge Fan of technology, but I use now a Nothing phone banned all social media from my Phone and using my mobile phone primarily for productivity and education.

Bartek "Pan Nindyk" Wanot Dec 28

@jwildeboer So there is still hope 🥹

🎹 Your Masto in April 🎹Dec 28

@jwildeboer "It's not a coordinated movement. It's leaderless"

Would you say it's decentralized? 😉

The Human Capybara Dec 29

@jwildeboer I noticed that in my family and family friends.
That's why I'm pretty optimistic about younger generations.

I have to say I find this encouraging but also, I don't fully believe it.

My kids are younger that this age group and I'm not seeing signs of this in my nieces and nephews but it would thrill me if I did.

I cringe when I see people on Facebook --- remembering people my age who used to put every last freaking detail of their life on there and I have to imagine still do...

Let us have hope...

Irenes (many)Dec 29

@jwildeboer oh this is very good news

Suryo☀️Dec 29

@jwildeboer
What I've done is put all my social media apps on a second, low cost Android phone. I don't take this phone out with me unless absolutely necessary. By doing this, I still have some apps on my main phone but it's far less distracting than getting notifications all day. I tried quitting social media but for me, it's not been possible because I keep in touch with a lot of friends over various apps and services. So this strategy seemed to be a reasonable compromise.

Michael Labowicz Jan 3

@suryo @jwildeboer another option is to put the social media apps on a tablet, and keep them off the phone

JWcph, Radicalized By Decency Dec 29

@jwildeboer I'm seeing the same by way of my 26-year old daughter, as well as my younger colleagues. There is hope for the future.

Erik Haugaard Dec 29

@jwildeboer Your post got me checking the apps on my phone. I could probably do without most of them, doing the stuff they help with from a PC (banking, purchases, news, entertainment). But transport would be a problem. Bus and train tickets, as well as charging my car, would often be much more troublesome, sometimes impossible, without apps on my mobile device. Navigation is also very helpful and often used. Is it only the SoMe and media apps («content») they are ditching?

Simon Hewison Dec 29

@Erik_Haugaard @jwildeboer most of Europe has at least contactless payments or rfid roaming for public EV charging, Norway might be an outlier there if the charging networks can still insist on proprietary mobile phone apps.

Erik Haugaard Dec 29

@zymurgic @jwildeboer Public charging stations in Norway are required by law to accept contactless/card payment. My personal problem is our private, communal station at our cottage - which is app only. But more pressingly are bus and train tickets. Alternatives to app exist, but are far more cumbersome. Also the gym is app only, I just realized.

Jan Wildeboer 😷

@Erik_Haugaard It's not a binary thing. Preferring a dumb phone as daily driver and and avoiding things that insist on smartphone apps go a long way. But also: having a "backup" smartphone in your bag but only using it when absolutely not avoidable is perfectly fine too. @zymurgic

Jeferson 'Shin'Dec 29

@jwildeboer @Erik_Haugaard @zymurgic additionally you can modify your phone to behave like a dumb, and when needed space from the dumb space into the regular smart for a quick use.

@jwildeboer @Erik_Haugaard @zymurgic

I agree that it's important for us to push back against things that require smartphone apps, especially for physical services. But it's pretty difficult to do in practice.

- Don't like Ticketmaster? You could refuse to see any live performances but ones at small clubs, university theater programs, etc. It feels doable for some.

- Don't like that U-Haul makes you use your phone to get a moving truck? Unless you have a friend with a truck, I'm not sure there are many good alternatives.

- Don't like the video doorbell needed to get into the building where you're renting an apt or own a condo? Opting out there could require living somewhere actively worse for you. But in the meantime we need more tenants unions to push for these things.

@zymurgic @Erik_Haugaard @jwildeboer
It's much the same in Sweden.
You can buy physical period tickets for say a month at the time for public transport in Gothenburg. But I really don't know if you could buy a one way ticket for cash (or with a bank card); I certainly wouldn't count on it.
Besides, many smaller businesses here do not accept cash at all any longer, and some only accept payment by phone!
Swedish urban life really presupposes that people come with a smartphone.

Candi the Rabies Girl Dec 29

@jwildeboer hi all! 20 year old here who switched to dumb phone at 17. I only had a smartphone for 2 years and i am so much happier now! Much love

Nimbostratus Jan 1

@RabiesGirl @jwildeboer interesting, how are you posting here?

Candi the Rabies Girl Jan 1

@thedesert @jwildeboer cumputer bestie

Nimbostratus Jan 1

@RabiesGirl @jwildeboer cool 😉

⚜ Ån̶t̶hiǝ¯₣ab̷r̷ε ⚜ ☮️Dec 29

@jwildeboer the kids are alright

Radomír Žemlička Dec 29

@jwildeboer I'm a 29yo software developer.
- Switching to a dumb phone is not really an option for me, but I'm severly limiting the number of distractions on my phone.
- My only actively used social network is Mastodon. I have a Facebook account, but I only use Messenger.
- Having a semi-smart watch (Amazfit Neo) also helps a bit. To check the time or weather, I don't need to look at the phone.
- Libraries are cool (not just for books), but I usually like to own the books I read. I don't really care if it's a physical book ar an eBook. E-ink is absolutely fine and practical. Just don't buy the crap from Amazon. There are many better and cheaper alternatives, like PocketBook.
- When I need to buy a new piece of tech (only after I had done everything I could to repair the old one), I tend to look for the dumbest one, while still having the functions I need. No, my microwave really doesn't need to be connected to the internet. No, I don't want to see ads on my fridge, thank you very much.

And yeah, "I asked ChatGTP" makes me really mad. Especially because I know how LLMs work. 😄

Neil Moffatt Dec 29

@jwildeboer Great to hear of this trend.

Went into middle eastern food shop near me in Cardiff yesterday to speak with very friendly lady who works there. Young lady said she was not here - but that I could talk with her. She was about 18 I guess and loves to talk with strangers. So refreshing.

Cedar Fen Farm Cedar Fen Farm Dec 29

I see the same here in small town Wisconsin. Young people are enlarging their scope. Partly because of the information they gain on the internet.

pandabutter Dec 29

@jwildeboer This Christmas Eve, at the traditional family-friends pizza party, one of said family-friends mentioned she'd heard that "AI will put authors out of a job."

The immediate reply came from her 15-year old daughter, who… well, nobody can express derision quite like a teenager whose parent has just said something stupid. You could *hear* the eyeroll.

Wolfgang Hagen Dec 29

@jwildeboer
Interesting. That's really what my younger daughter (15) did. Well most of it.
She switched to a "dumb phone", but switched back because it doesn't play music.

She wanted to buy a DVD player to watch movies from the public library instead of streaming. (We still have one, but she didn't know how it works and thought it was broken.)

Frank Böhmert Dec 30

@jwildeboer I'm the father of two twentysomethings in Berlin and I'm seeing this, too.

Martin Hamilton Jan 3

@jwildeboer I've found that many of the teens I encounter are vehmently opposed to genAI, and they will explain in no uncertain terms all the reasons why they loathe it and the grifting techbros who promote it.

Not just "it's a bit... meh!" but more burn it to the ground and then salt the earth to be on the safe side.

When you consider about how the future looks from their perspective, this is quite understandable, and I've started to think about the genAI bubble as something of a mass radicalisation event.

I am very proud of them.

Go kids!

Jeffrey Haas Dec 28

@jwildeboer Kids are extremely sensitive to intrusive monitoring. It's been baked into parenting in various forms over the years, but tech makes some forms of it well past a level of odious that the actual parents would never have put up with themselves.

Easier to unplug and not be monitored.

Not to mention that librarians are often on their side.

caffetino Dec 28

@jwildeboer this gives me hope.

@jwildeboer I am absolutely biased but I can confirm this for some 20-30 somethings I know :-)

@jwildeboer
In the words of The Who, the kids are alright.

As a person in my early 40’s that’s spent the last few years getting back into film cameras, Polaroid, revisiting my own music collection on a cheap MP3 player, purchasing real books and carrying a lovely leather traveller’s style notebook everywhere I go, it’s great to see the younger generations picking up on the same ideas.

Whatisgoingon Dec 28

@jwildeboer this is really good to hear!

I am quiet a bit older than 20-30 but oh man do I feel the strong urge to dumb down my mobile devices to their core functions to get some peace of mind.

Gary Houston Dec 28

@jwildeboer finding information in printed books was slow and inconvenient though, and made it hard to do certain work except in proximity to a big university library.

Ben Rosengart Dec 28

@jwildeboer @StaceyCornelius My 14 year old child is buying LPs for a number of reasons which all fit in the category of, “Something important that’s lost when we reduce music to just bits.”

Stacey Cornelius 🇨🇦Dec 28

@fivetonsflax I recall a couple of people mocking me back in the 2010s for still buying CDs when I could just stream music.

Yeah, no. I like objects. Always have, always will. I just don't overbuy.

Jan Wildeboer 😷

@StaceyCornelius I agree with everything you say but the last point ;) I do buy too much stuff. Most of it second hand though, because re-use beats buying and used CDs are still quite cheap (vinyl not so much). I am that person that was so happy to finally get a complete Encyclopaedia Britannica in his livingroom :) For free, but I needed to cover the shipping costs. @fivetonsflax

Stacey Cornelius 🇨🇦Dec 28

@jwildeboer Totally on board with pre-loved CDs!

Green Hombre Dec 28

@jwildeboer @StaceyCornelius @fivetonsflax
I always imagined the "Simplify" movement people during COVID, folding and unfolding their 3 pair of jeans in an empty room with bare shelves.
I'm glad I had so much junk to play with during lockdown.

CubeOfCheese Dec 28

@jwildeboer 👋I'm one of em. I used to think I was alone in this until I started seeing articles and YouTube videos about Gen z sober Gen z dumb phones. And I was like hey wait that's me.

I have a smartphone still but with a simple android launcher and solid color background. I used to have my phone in black and white.
Mastodon is the only sm I have on my phone.
I asked for a Polaroid for Christmas.

CubeOfCheese Dec 28

@jwildeboer one of the driving forces that hasn't been mentioned is that physical devices feel nice and fun in way that is lost with digital apps. It's more fun to take a picture with a Polaroid than the camera app on my phone. It's cooler to put on a vinyl than to use a streaming app. And the tactile experience of the vinyls and record player is just fun.

Jan Wildeboer 😷

@cubeofcheese And, according to my daughter: "nobody can count how often and for how long you played which song from which vinyl" ;)

Shawn Hooper (he/him) 🇨🇦Dec 29

@cubeofcheese @jwildeboer Curious follow up - how do you choose to communicate with your friends? SMS? Group chat? Phone calls?

CubeOfCheese Dec 29

@shawnhooper @jwildeboer mostly text.
Phone calls are usually logistical, not social. Like "hey I'm here where are you"
Very few group chats that are usually very small like 3 total for a friend group

@[email protected] has moved Dec 28

@jwildeboer my 18yo daughter has already done most of what you described, and I wish I could take credit somehow but she is plowing ahead with de-techification w/o her parents leading the way and I couldn’t be prouder for her

Sriram "sri" Ramkrishna - 😼Dec 28

@jwildeboer Good! It's the right thing to do now is to go analog especially when thanks to AI we have no idea what is reality anymore.

the elder sea Dec 28

@jwildeboer
One of my concerns around dumb phones is the lack of ability to use something like Signal for its privacy. I may be uninformed here, but SMS is absolutely useless from a privacy perspective, and these days, that's a hard nope.

Colorblind Cowboy Dec 29

@eldersea I was thinking this too the other day when looking at a dumb phone

Alexandre Oliva Dec 30

signal on proprietary operating systems can only give you as much privacy as the controllers of the proprietary operating systems will allow. hold on to the dumb phone and, where privacy matters, use a computing device that actually stands a chance of respecting your privacy

CC: @[email protected]

Ryan Mann Dec 28

@jwildeboer @pattykimura It is good to here about young people reducing social media time. I would like to point out that reading a print book from a library is harder for me as a blind person than reading a digital book from an app like Apple Books or an audio book.

Jan Wildeboer 😷

@progressivecat Our public library in Munich gives you easy (and free) access to audiobooks too. As do many, if not most, other libraries nowadays. You can also get ebooks in epub format that should be readily readable on screenreaders. @pattykimura

Duckbilled Plattypus.Dec 29

@progressivecat
@jwildeboer

A number of my visually impaired clients use audio books free from our small local library (my Dad was blind). Audio books are also helpful to those with certain cognitive issues. We are rural and isolated, but our local library is part of the state's interlibrary loan system, so they can get a huge variety of materials.

@jwildeboer
Best news I’ve heard all day