James Thomson
On Tahoe, why is the image next to the save command in the File menu “square.and.arrow.down”, but the export and share commands are “square.and.arrow.up” and import has the arrow pointing _down_?
Dec 8 at 6:13pmIvory for Mac
Show threadAndrewDec 8
@jamesthomson Save is putting it on your device, share is (generally) for putting it on other devices? but then export should be a down arrow too…
Show threadTroldann ArothinDec 8

@jamesthomson It's perspective. Saving is going down from app to disk. Exporting/sharing is going up from app to wherever. Importing is bringing down from wherever to the app. It would then need to go more down to get to the disk.

Or something, I dunno. I just make stuff up and post on the internet.

Show threadleah szpunarDec 8
@troldann @jamesthomson this is exactly the same way i thought about it pretty much (except the more down thing)
Show threadmtc_ukDec 8
@jamesthomson Once they go up, who cares where they come down?
Show threadJonathan DallasDec 8
@mtconleyuk @jamesthomson
Show threadJonathan HendryDec 8

@jamesthomson

Why is Open a diagonal arrow to the upper right?

Show threadJoseph HumfreyDec 8
@jamesthomson the arrows all make sense, you're just holding them wrong... in your mind
Show threadAmy WorrallDec 8
@joethephish @jamesthomson Thanks I hate it
Show threadFabienDec 8

@jamesthomson down: into the app, up out of the app.
(Yes both save and export write to files, but save is inward looking, export outward)

Also consistent with longstanding use.

Show threadDonald HaysDec 8
@jamesthomson Here, I fixed it.
Show threadmax oaklandDec 11
@donaldhays Here, I really fixed it!
Show threadmonkeydom, Ar.TDec 8
@jamesthomson because having to give each menu item an icon was a stupid idea from the get go. :(
Show threadSteven WoolgarDec 8
@monkeydom @jamesthomson I’m still annoyed at all the shortcuts being disabled, the images makes me think of Windows 95 era menus.
Show threadBill TschumyDec 9
@jamesthomson I just read the words
Show threadGlacies delenda estDec 9

@jamesthomson I suspect the reason is that those icons began on iOS, where the “save” icon most often means “take this photo [from an app/website/etc.] and keep it in my device” and the “share” icon means “take this item and send it to someone else’s device.” They make sense in that context, less so on MacOS.

I can’t say why they went with the arrows they did for icons that didn’t already exist, but I wouldn’t be shocked if the people who put them there couldn’t either.

Show threadDr. WardDec 9
@jamesthomson Feels like someone just picking things from SF Symbols based on vibes.
Show threadmax oaklandDec 11
@Rmward 100% this
Show threadFrank ReiffDec 9

@jamesthomson it’s actually a great cognitive psychology trick!

Put symbols next to ALL items, so that the brains can not assign different priorities. Make them very small so that they have no visual weight and are hard to distinguish. Then most importantly, make them completely meaningless so that they can be correctly identified as visual noise and get filtered out by the V1 cortex long before they can hit the prefrontal cortex.

You get the SAME task performance as if they weren’t there.

Show threadmax oaklandDec 11
@jamesthomson Bigger question: Why are there icons next to these menus at all? They increase clutter and visual noise
Show threadMindaugas RudokasDec 11

@maxoakland What level of denoising would be your preference? Are fav-icons for bookmarks ok? What about tag colors? What about let’s say text justification options left|center|right? Does preference change for context menus compared to app menu?

More talk on menu icons here:
https://mastodon.social/@mrudokas/115700249433987843

+ @jamesthomson

Show threadmax oaklandDec 17
I don’t see any reason for icons in menus. That’s the entire point of toolbars