(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)

for how many retro BBSs are out there now, maybe two of them are Citadel?

doing my part, and attempting to resurrect Citadel-86, widely used in its (and my) hometown of the Minneapolis 612 and beyond, and root of many later Citadel forks

does anyone out there remember these?

tell me your stories because they are rapidly being lost to internet decay

did you notice bbsmates is gone?

Citadel-86 is now borderline lost media, the last version is MIA along with some extra tools for database resize and the Ease config tool

does anyone have them? check those dusty floppies

#BBS #Citadel #Citadel86 #Minneapolis #retrocomputing #bbsing #dialup #dialupdays

Nov 1 at 4:40pmWeb
Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Nov 2

disabled opengl in dosbox, seems to have solved the hangs. try it now

behold, to the best of my knowledge the only running Citadel-86 anyone has seen in some time:

ssh to [email protected] to connect

sorry no telnet, too much of a paranoid crypto punk to run unencrypted over the internet

the board is running in dosbox on my original first gen raspi, a retro platform in itself at this point, currently sitting on my 486

most of the fun of sysop-ing is being a sicko watching the console :)

i can enable sysop chat but i don't currently have any sound hooked up to hear the beeps... 

leaving it on v3.45 for now, check it out while you can

#BBS #Citadel #Citadel86 #Minneapolis #retrocomputing #bbsing #dialup #dialupdays

Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Nov 8

now updated to Citadel-86 v3.49

what does it change? nothing i can see

time to start digging in the source code 🧐

Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Nov 17

okay lets dig in to that Citadel-86 V3.49 repo

seems we have the last version from Hue Jr with binaries, Steve Steffler patched the Y2K bug, moved the build to Borland C++ 3.1 and passed away without releasing any binaries

(was he a name in Citadelia? i've not connected him to an alias)

Citadel-86 v3.45 has the string "Borland C++ - Copyright 1991 Borland Intl." which is Borland C++ 2.0? or maybe 3.0?

v3.49 binaries have "Turbo-C - Copyright (c) 1988 Borland Intl." which is Turbo C 2.0

why did he go backwards? does explain why v3.49 seems slower lol

lets install us some Borland

and indeed it builds Citadel-86 from source with no errors, but some questionable warnings...

and it runs! indeed we have a Y2K fix, kinda. Cit86 formats the date as a text string in the database, so existing messages keep their broken dates

Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Nov 17

Citadel-86 v3.49-hax deployed live 🫡

has Y2K fix, removed some pauses waiting for old modems which are not necessary in emulation, and i've got it idling using HLT, which keeps it from burning CPU in VMs new and old, such as a Win95 dos window 😀

connect via ssh to [email protected]

#BBS #Citadel #Citadel86 #Minneapolis #retrocomputing #bbsing #dialup #dialupdays

Show threadKinetix Jan 17
@Seg Howdy! I tried connecting today but the process doesn't get any further than 'Establishing IP over wormhole tunnel..."

But your post got me wondering if one can still get the source for Citadel-UX before the networking code was ripped out. Apparently we can!

I used to run a Citadel-68K back in the day, there were a handful around Vancouver, BC back then, too.
Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Jan 31

@kinetix uhh sorry BBS suffered a hard drive failure so its been down for a bit and i've been lacking time and energy to figure that out

working on getting it back up now

...things have been a little busy in south minneapolis lately 😬

EDIT: its back! `ssh [email protected]` to connect!

Show thread🦠Toxic Flange (Gurjeet)🔬⚱️🌚Nov 17

@Seg Fortunately he left some notes:

https://github.com/stevesteffler/citadel-86/commit/62c0d78ade829fe65c4dac2f77e3cf8b72e8f470

  • Modified build environment to use Borland C++ 3.1 instead of Turbo C 2.01. Slightly larger files, but slightly faster execution and faster build times.
Modified build environment to use Borland C++ 3.1 instead of Turbo C … · stevesteffler/citadel-86@62c0d78

…2.01. Slightly larger files, but slightly faster execution and faster build times.

GitHub
Show threadAlexander BochmannNov 2
@Seg Heh, the Y2K vibes of "125Nov01" ...
Show thread🦠Toxic Flange (Gurjeet)🔬⚱️🌚Nov 2
@Seg I need telix and redial :D
Show threadDigital Mark λ ☕️ 🌮 🚀 🌗Nov 2

@Seg AMAZING. I put +++ in my message as a joke because dumb users did that a lot.

It still terminates the connection.

Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Nov 3

@mdhughes oh wow its super broken

dosbox modem emu... needs a lot of work

Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Nov 3
@mdhughes logged out for you
Show threadDigital Mark λ ☕️ 🌮 🚀 🌗Nov 3

@Seg Probably need to delete or edit my message to make it not boot-loop every time someone reads.

My joke is a killing word!

Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Nov 3

@mdhughes dunno somehow i got in and it was fine but i log in again and it mega fails now lmao

...i'm already patching dosbox's virtual modem jank. i have an idea how to fix this 🔪

disable +++ entirely, citadel doesn't use it

Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Nov 3
and maybe we can lick that "not answering" problem too
Show threadpoetasterNov 3
@Seg oh! It's been a while since I've run it. I used to use the whole stack! Hmmm. Should set up instance....
Show threadZ80KittyNov 3
@Seg Pretty cool project, hopefully it goes well for you because I love a ole BBS!!
Show threadWintermute_BBSNov 1
@Seg I run today's incarnation of Citadel Groupware as my mail server. It still has a text client.
Show threadDigital Mark λ ☕️ 🌮 🚀 🌗Nov 1

@Seg I was a Fnordadel sysop, it ran nicely on a Mega 2 ST under MiNT Unix-like while I did other stuff most of the time. Caves of Steel BBS in Spokane, subs paid for the line and a little profit, doorgames kept them coming back, local connection got me on CitNet and some Internet email share (Waffle?)

Nothing's left of it, alas.

I dunno how much the modern Citadel "groupware" has left from the OG Citadels.
#citadel #fnordadel #bbs #atari

Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Nov 1

@mdhughes as an Atari ST nerd i'm actually aiming to resurrect Fnordadel as well, i actually messed with STadel a bit back in the day, fnordadel seems to have been one of the last active original Citadel forks, but seeing Citadel-86 go nearly extinct and forgotten, i wanted to see it run again first.

i haven't seen anything but Citadel/UX run in a very long time :(

someone told me they were working on bringing up an original CP/M Citadel a while back, did they ever get that going...

Show threadSpace HoboNov 2
@Seg @mdhughes One of my favourite BBSes in the 90s was a Cit68k running on an Amiga. The legend was that the founder never logged in, but just kept it running in a little window while his friends moderated.
Show threadThe Penguin of EvilNov 1
@Seg I believe mono is still going (mono.org). That's 1990s UK BBS from the days of JANET and then the UK academic network finally joining the internet. It's not a resurrection either - it's been going all of tha ttime.
Show thread🦠Toxic Flange (Gurjeet)🔬⚱️🌚Nov 1
@Seg 902 was a massive Citadel base. i’ve got some of the source of the last stable version but it had Hue Jrs interactive menu system ripped out due to it being based on some client work of his. it’s on github and gitlab as well ..
Show threadSpace HoboNov 1

@Seg The 206 was huge for Citadels. The original CP/M Cit was born there, and a bunch of Cit86-descendants exploded around 1989.

I was largely on the GremCit side of things, as were people my age generally. It added colour and all the things that Cit86 refused to, but remained true to the core `g`,`n`,`e`,`.`-commands mode with your post appearing where it would in the thread as you typed it.

No offense to @Wintermute_BBS but the "Citadel groupware" web thing was so un-like Citadel that it prompted me to write a Web Citadel that actually behaved properly back in the 90s. I even had an article in the final issue of Citanews about it. I recently found the code, and it's kind of amusing in a cgi-bin Perl5 kind of way.

Show threadWintermute_BBSNov 2
@spacehobo @Seg no offense taken. I once built the CP/M version on my RC2014 (maybe two years ago) but for some reason didn't do much with it. Maybe I should try it out once more.
Show thread🦠Toxic Flange (Gurjeet)🔬⚱️🌚Nov 1

@Seg

The 3.49 release was taken over with permissions and recompiled by this guy, but he passed not long after. I made copies and think i have some older versions going back in my NAS i'll dig around if you want older versions. There's also some historical links in Steve Steffler's repo.

https://github.com/stevesteffler/citadel-86

https://github.com/gclair/citadel-86/releases has source and releases for 3.48 and the last 3.49

https://gitlab.com/toxicflange/citadel-86

GitHub - stevesteffler/citadel-86: This is a continuation of the Citadel-86 BBS software, as published by Hue, Jr. We are attempting to maintain this software so it can continue to be used by BBS Sysops wishing to install a simple, straight forward room-based message board/discussion based system. For more information on the Citadel legacy see: http://anticlimactic.retrovertigo.com/

This is a continuation of the Citadel-86 BBS software, as published by Hue, Jr. We are attempting to maintain this software so it can continue to be used by BBS Sysops wishing to install a simple, ...

GitHub
Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Nov 1
@Toxic_Flange excellent!
Show thread🦠Toxic Flange (Gurjeet)🔬⚱️🌚Nov 2
@Seg one thing i’ve always wanted to do is fix the y2k problem and see if somehow a native tcp connection method could be brought into it with a layer that makes doors more compatible as well..
Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Nov 2

@Toxic_Flange yup, first thing i wanted to do after getting the darn thing reliably available is see if i can rebuild from source and fix that pesky Y2K issue

it's really blowing my mind how minimal the system requirements are for Citadel-86: any PC with ~300k RAM. you could run a board off floppies if you like wearing them out :)

the thought occurs of porting to raspi pico or ESP32 or any number of other microcontrollers that vastly exceed the specs of most early BBS servers... 🤔

still looking to log in over meshtastic 📡

Show thread🦠Toxic Flange (Gurjeet)🔬⚱️🌚Nov 2
@Seg I started working on creating a build pipeline for it with dosbox , but the turbo C makefile has an issue where some of the commands just don’t work under dosbox .. got frustrated and it’s been on the back burner ever since
Show threadtopher1kenobeNov 1
@Seg I didn't do phone BBSs, but when I first got on the Internet in 1995 I immediately found telnet BBSs. I was a regular on ISCA and Shadow and a handful of others. My favorite platform was YAWC (Yet Another Wersion of Citadel). I really enjoyed those times, and am still friends with people I met on those systems.
Show threadElias MårtensonNov 2
@Seg Is this something I can connect to from my Atari ST?
Show thread(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡 ᖇETᖇO ᖇOᗩᗪKIᒪᒪ (ʘ言ʘ╬)Nov 2

@loke don't want to be spreading my home IP around, which could change at any time

spent some time tonight rebuilding my public VPS server so that can front end it and bare the brunt of the exploit scanner bots, gonna sleep on it before i let the internet loose on it :)

Show threadChristian HornNov 2
@Seg There is now LoRa (think of WiFi, but optimized for long range, and just offering low throughput), which seeded the idea to revive BBSed over the air, without the internet.
I think throughput/latency wise it's feasible, but the best combination of layers needs to be figured out.
https://blog.fluxcoil.net/posts/2025/10/lora-meshtastic-bbs-testing/
Lora Meshtastic BBS Testing

Terms Details on some terms I will use:\nLoRa (“Long Range”) is a technology for transmitting data via radio signals. It’s designed for much longer distances than Wifi: the record for LoRa is around 300km, and typical distance 10km. Downsides: less throughput than Wifi, and higher latency. LoRa defines various profiles, these allow to fine tune latency/ throughput versus distance of the participating stations. meshtastic is an OpenSource firmware, designed to run on a variety of devices. Meshtastic implements a mesh network, so even if participating nodes can not reach each other directly via radio, they can exchange data via nodes in the middle. BBS (“Bulletin board system”) are a kind of software. In the early 1980s, a BBS software did run on a system, and other computers or terminals could dial into this system and interact with the software. The software allows data exchange between multiple users, they can leave messages for each other, or data like pictures. Messages could also be exchanged with other BBSs. With the internet, the “always on” style appeared. Some BBSs are still run, and can be accesed via dialup or over the internet. The idea of BBS over LoRa Since some time, you can get a small LoRa device with antenna for $30. Such a device can have an own keyboard, and you can exchange messages with similiar devices within your range. This requires that the node sending and the one receiving the message are online at the same time.\n

Japan, Tech and Open Source
Show threadpejacobyNov 5
@Seg that’s a flashback - 612 resident of those times, I recall the great rift between the Citadel sysops and the other platforms. So many great Twin Cities BBS choices back then!
Show thread🦠Toxic Flange (Gurjeet)🔬⚱️🌚Nov 17

@Seg Oh right BTW, if you haven't seen this bit here yet , its history.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170213022647/http://anticlimactic.retrovertigo.com/

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