Mastodawn

foxpotato Sep 17, 2025

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)

Oh my goodness. I think this is the only place on the internet nerdy enough to help me locate this info.

My parents met on a what was effectively an unofficial chat room hosted by capital radio (London). In the 1980s, Capital Radio used to leave their switchboard open at night (unintentionally, they didn’t realise it was happening) and people would call the regular radio phone and just end up in what was effectively a giant group call for Londoners late at night. (I say Londoners due to the reach of the radio rather than the phone line itself, people wouldn’t know the number unless they listened in).

I understand they changed how the phone system worked later in the 80s and closed this loophole off.

So what I’m after is…
- the nature of the switchboard that allowed this to happen - edit now answered
- what change would have blocked this later on - edit now answered
- any historic info on the period it was left open, or personal accounts - still pending, trying other social media too for this

#radio #capitalradio #phreaking #VintagePhoning #1980s #retrochatroom

mike805 Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo There were similar things in the USA where a recorded message line would be left up without a recording and people could call that number and chat.

People were desperate for any kind of multiparty chat for decades before it was commonplace. Not sure why someone did not just provide one. It would not have cost that much.

Pat Sep 17, 2025

@mike805 @leymoo in early mid 1960s we teens in suburban Philadelphia, PA, USA, used the "beep line". We called our own phone number, got a busy signal (beep tone at regular intervals, every 3-4 seconds or so) and voila! It was an open chat line just as you describe. To converse, we spoke a single word in the silence between the beeps. Introductory phrase was "who [beep] is [beep] on [beep] the [beep] line?" Fun fun fun til Ma Bell shut it down! Lasted abt 6 months.

Rich Sep 18, 2025

@patrascan @mike805 @leymoo this reminds me of the system my group of friends had (UK, circa 1990) - we used coded messages based on the number of rings. So for instance, you'll ring a friend, let the phone ring 3 times and hang up. They'd look at the code sheet and see that meant e.g. "do you want to come to my house?" Free communication! Of course there were other more sophisticated phone hacks around in those days too.

Pat Sep 18, 2025

@richardnosworthy @mike805 @leymoo the beep line was different. Only teens used it. It was open chat for dozens of kids at a time. Mostly for flirting and chatting with strangers. The fun part was speaking in rhythm, one word at a time, in between the beep tones.

Rich Sep 18, 2025

@patrascan @mike805 @leymoo that sounds way more fun!

Pat Sep 18, 2025

@richardnosworthy @mike805 @leymoo beep line was total fun. Especially the flirting

yakkoj 🦊Sep 17, 2025

@mike805 @leymoo this was that weird time between "we've got nothing" and "commercialize EVERYTHING"

This obviously was ripe for one of those 1-900 services in USA, but (thankfully) never happened

Someone could have easily provided local versions of these. Sure, "they" would have to be close to the telco, but at worst it'd be a flat rate. (Bear with me; I'm being kind to the same entity that implemented evil intra-LATA charges ;o)

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)Sep 17, 2025

@yakkoj @[email protected] The “1-900” as a chat room equivalent did actually happen in the uk later in the 80s. They’d be advertised on tv late at night!

Shark Hat Sep 18, 2025

@leymoo You've unlocked a memory of The Mary Whitehouse Experience rado show prank calling some sort of phone chat service, there were a couple of bored sounding people on it talking about their favourite kind of tea! Must have been early nineties.

beemoh Sep 18, 2025

@leymoo @yakkoj 50! 50! 50!

Matt Hall Sep 17, 2025

This is, by far, the coolest thing I've heard all day. Thanks for sharing! I hope you find and share any info you find about this.

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)Sep 17, 2025

@401matthall There are so many parallels to my teen years on irc… I have been 🤯

My mother was doing this from about age 13-14 - she met my father at 17 or so (nowhere near the first person she met), they liked each other, had a few dates, became boyfriend/girlfriend, few years later I appeared. Turns out teens causing trouble is not just for modern social media. 😁

Apparently the max sizes of the groups tended to be 20-30 people at one go - so pretty niche, and I have no idea if the radio staff have any idea now this was going on.

Alaric Snell-Pym Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo @401matthall the station probably had 20-30 incoming lines so that was the maximum number that could be on at once! People doing this kind of thing in the US were called phone phreaks, if that gives you a lead - I don't know if we had a different UK colloquialism?

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)Sep 17, 2025

@kitten_tech @401matthall I don’t know if us Brits had a different term but I do know as a student my next door neighbour’s son was a police investigator who worked on phone crimes (phreaking and scams) in the 80s - the new premium numbers in the late 80s meant lots of people worked out loopholes to make money - he talked about a bunch of scams which my now significantly older brain has lost to time, sadly.

Alaric Snell-Pym Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo @401matthall I remember hearing that the US version of the lines where the recipient gets paid by the minute let the line owner set the rate, so somebody set it to the maximum the form allowed ($9999.99 a minute or similar), went to random offices with a package for Mr Madeupname, then when they said there wasn't anyone by that name here, asked if they could ring their office - and rang their premium rate number. Apparently it was hard to prosecute aa they'd asked permission...

)}]Sep 18, 2025

@kitten_tech @leymoo @401matthall
A guy in England set up a premium rate number for himself, and used a payphone phreaking trick to call it for a few hours every night. The premium rate number was never advertised, and the only calls it ever got were from the same payphone. The payphone was very close to the guy's house. So of course he got caught.

punIssuer Sep 17, 2025

@kitten_tech I thought phreaks were the hackers™ that managed to bypass the telephone provider's accounting to stay connected for hours on end without having to pay anything
@leymoo @401matthall

Alaric Snell-Pym Sep 18, 2025

@punissuer @leymoo @401matthall that too!

Tortipede Sep 18, 2025

@punissuer @kitten_tech @leymoo @401matthall A friend of mine (UK, late '80s) used to send sound (eg touchtone tones) from his computer to his hi-fi, then put one headphone over the phone mouthpiece. He described as "phone phreaking" things like the time he (allegedly) called the Bank of America in London (a local call), got each outgoing line to call the next incoming one and then, when he'd tied up the whole switchboard, used the last outgoing line to call his girlfriend in Paris.

1000millimeter Sep 18, 2025

@tortipede @punissuer @kitten_tech @leymoo @401matthall Why did he not directly call paris but tie up the whole switchboard first?

Tortipede Sep 18, 2025

@1000millimeter @punissuer @kitten_tech @leymoo @401matthall Using their switchboard meant that he paid for a local call, while BoA paid for the international call; tying up the switchboard was just deliberate mischief. I'm not necessarily praising the mischief, but I'm impressed at the skills. I wouldn't have had the faintest idea where to start, but this was someone who had already written commercially available games when he was still in school, back when that was a thing one person could do.

1000millimeter Sep 18, 2025

@tortipede @punissuer @kitten_tech @leymoo @401matthall First part was clear. Just wasn't sure if there was more than intentional mischief behind blocking all lines.

1000millimeter Sep 18, 2025

@tortipede @punissuer @kitten_tech @leymoo @401matthall I meant, directly call Paris after being in the switchboard :o) Sorry for being unclear.

Nils Goroll 🕊️

@tortipede @punissuer @kitten_tech @leymoo @401matthall yes, later we had custom hardware for that

look for blueboxing and phreaking if you want to learn more

Mark T. Tomczak Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo I sadly do not have this information, but this story makes me smile because I have a pair of acquaintances (one Irish, one American) who met online in a Christian chat-with-avatars room back in the early aughts (one of the early experiments in that kind of thing; the avatars were like Final Fantasy icons and the world was a tiled grid). They eventually wed.

... they were two atheists who had logged in to gawk at the existence of the thing.

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)Sep 17, 2025

@mark I love this! Both of them maybe thinking
“Wait, I’m not the only imposter here?!”

Furbisms Sep 18, 2025

Do you by any chance remember what the name of this game was?

Mark T. Tomczak Sep 18, 2025

@furbisms Sadly, I do not.

Theresacityinmymind Sep 17, 2025

In the US, that was called a party line. To reduce costs, a bunch of people would share a single line that only one person would use at a time out of courtesy, BUT anyone sharing the party line can actually listen in or talk if they want to.

Alfred Hitchcock Presents looks like it was a US TV show. In 1960, there was an episode called party line.

The alternative is a private line.

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)Sep 17, 2025

@Theresacityinmymind I’m curious as to whether there was specific telecom kit that radio stations used to manage calls in the 70s and 80s - maybe if there was a bit of kit it used the same concept to work as the party line concept in the US, but on purpose? I understand the UK switched from US style phone networks to their less phreakable system (System X - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_X_(telephony) ) by the early 80s - a black box would work on UK networks up until that switchover.

System X (telephony) - Wikipedia

Keith Mitchell🏳️‍⚧️Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo @Theresacityinmymind The UK switchover from analogue strowger to System X (& System Y), took a very long time, most of the 80s and into the 90s before it was completed. It did however leapfrog the crossbar systems used in other countries, going straight from electro-mechanical to digital.

I do recall various UK universities and employers I was at in the early 80s having fully digital PABX systems ahead of the PSTN going digital. It's possible but unlikely the chat room was a PABX digital conference bridge, but I suspect the analogue theory is more plausible.

)}]Sep 18, 2025

@leymoo @Theresacityinmymind
There were many purpose-built phone line patch units; you would need to isolate the studio mixer from the telco -48v and avoid hum. A transformer (and not much more) could do the job.

Telco certified ones were expensive, even for a single line. Even today:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Telephone-Audio-Interfaces/ci/8815

)}]Sep 18, 2025

@leymoo @Theresacityinmymind
I can remember reading about some UK radio stations using a "Buzby box" (named after BT's annoying publicity mascot) to simulate phone calls. A staffer could "phone in" using a regular mic, with the box providing just the right EQ and distortion.

Tammi 𝆮 𓃠 Sep 18, 2025

@Theresacityinmymind @leymoo i read this in a novel as a child and it ended up with a neighbour blocking the ability to call emergency services. i would love to know what i read

Maura Hubbell Sep 21, 2025

@leymoo @Theresacityinmymind Party lines were more common in rural areas, for the reason you mention: cost.

Dźwiedziu Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo
Try to get in touch with the person behind the YT channel “Look Mum No Computer” and “This Museum is not Obsolete”.
The latter will probably explain my recommendation (TL;DW: a museum for musical implements and telecom equipment in the UK from days past).

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)Sep 17, 2025

@dzwiedziu Turns out I might have a second degree connection with these people, so this is a good shout on the specifics of the PBX and so on.

Leif Samuelsson Sep 17, 2025

Cool! The same thing happened in #Sweden in 1982, when people discovered some vacant numbers acting like conference calls. They became popularly known as "hot lines". The national phone company subsequently provided some official numbers for the purpose, until 1995.

People would arrange to meet, like your parents did, and there was even a group of more than 1000 youth that congregated in a park in Stockholm, leading to a clash with the police.

You can feed this link to a translator of choice:

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heta_linjen_%28Sverige%29

Heta linjen (Sverige) – Wikipedia

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)Sep 17, 2025

@leffe This sounds much nicer than the UK’s approach (recently privatised in 1984), which was to introduce premium rate phone numbers so people could run these at a profit ☹️

Magnus Ahltorp Sep 17, 2025

@leffe We had a talk about this at the hacker event ”make all” on the 30th anniversary in 2012. Unfortunately the video of the talk is not up any longer, but I should have it laying around somewhere.

lpbkdotnet Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo Early 80s… likely still strowger equipment

The details get a bit tricky, but a fault could lead to equipment not properly being marked as busy, so subsequent callers end up connected to the same pair

Capital would have had dedicated main exchange equipment, and its own PABX on-prem, which complicates things

I expect the “night service” function on the PABX put a fault on the busy marker wire

I know a couple of BBC switchboard ops from that time who might be able to confirm… I’ll ask!

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)Sep 17, 2025

@lpbkdotnet ok this is amazing detail - I have friends of friends in THG but it’s not something I have detailed knowledge of.

lpbkdotnet Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo sorry for being a bit light on detail, character limits etc!

If this was a fault, that was either fixed when they noticed it, or resolved when their exchange was upgraded to an electronic exchange. Hard to say!

Early feedback from my phone friends is that a fault on the p-wire of the night service extension on the PABX at the studio could cause calls to be stacked together like this, it’s a workable theory… but so far i haven’t had a response from anyone who knows what kit capital had

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)Sep 17, 2025

@lpbkdotnet I just complimented you on something you then apologised for, you must be British or Canadian 😂.

I’d say maybe upgraded to an electronic exchange - timing is right - I am very very limited in knowledge here, but I’m aware of the switchover to System X in that period. Hoping the radio parts of fediverse might chip in on whether the radio station had any idea this was going on, or even any people who also called in, or whether the timing of the switchover to an electronic exchange triggers any memories for them.

lpbkdotnet Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo lol “sorry” 😂

a friend says:

Capital Radio had a PABX 7, but phone-ins used a completely separate group of lines which were termed on Key and Lamp units (callers who actually got on air were called back on another group of lines).

I can’t think how this would have worked on a normal KLU set-up.

I also have a memory of some sort of late-night chatline which was “official” rather than being something discovered accidentally. But it was a long time ago

lpbkdotnet Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo Capital phone-ins are mentioned (with photos) here:
http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/journals/Post_Office_Telecommunications_Journal/POTJ%20Vol%2025%20No%204%20Winter%201973-74.pdf

The unit with all the switches in the bottom left of the cover photo is the key-and-lamp unit

The use of KLUs changes my technical theory, but there are other options. the announcer mentioned in the article may have been switched off or faulty, or multiple keys on the KLU could have been left operated, or something else entirely!

This has been quite a fun little technical research jaunt!

Extreme Electronics Sep 17, 2025

@lpbkdotnet @leymoo radio stations that did call in shows, did have equipment that would automatically answer incoming calls and connect them to a common circuit, usually playing the stations output. It's concevable that out of hours with no music feed, or operator these lines would have worked as a large lossy bridge.

No reference to London, but i knew of one system locally.

I built an electronic replacement for one in the early 90's (without BT approval)

lpbkdotnet Sep 17, 2025

@Extelec @leymoo I’ve got a stack of relatively modern auto answer hybrids.

I’m using one of them to feed a couple of guitar pedals for my “scream into the void” phone thing.

0117 911 1228 - select option 5

The others will likely be used for other silliness at emf next year…

Edit: oh ffs. Every time I mention this number I then immediately do something that breaks it.it will be offline until I can get a monitor plugged in to the airing cupboard

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)Sep 17, 2025

@lpbkdotnet @Extelec I certainly enjoyed bringing a dect handset to emfcamp and will be doing it again. Much thanks for the work and fun!

Axel Sep 18, 2025

@lpbkdotnet @leymoo
Oh wow, that telecoms magazine brings back memories!
Thanks!

Silver Arrows Sep 18, 2025

@lpbkdotnet @leymoo that sounds similar to what my techie uncle said when I showed the OP.

"I think I know what was happening but hard to explain. It was just a bad pbx configuration, it was early seats for companies to run all electronic pbx systems and security was minimal as was the knowledge to make them secure. In essence when the operators shut down for the night it was auto answering and all the calls ended up connected together."

I definitely know what all this means.

Dr Alice Violett Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo @vfrmedia this sounds like something you might know about? 😁

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Sep 17, 2025

@alicemcalicepants @leymoo

Quite likely the muitple circuits (eg 01 484 5255 with 10 lines which would be known as 01 484 5255/1 to 01 484 5255/10) ended up on something like a key and lamp unit (link below) - they can be set up to forbid the lines communicating with one another, but if the wiring change was not made it would be possible.

That might be deliberate for a radio station to get more than one caller to air at the same time without having multiple channels on the desk hybrid (those channel strips aren't cheap and its more work for the broadcast engineers) and/or all 10 keys are left active late at night with fewer staff

At some point Capital would have gone to a more modern ACD (automatic call distributor) which would have removed this loophole

https://www.britishtelephones.com/klu2a.htm

GPO - Key and Lamp Unit No's 2A and 10A

GPO - Key and Lamp Unit No's 2A and 10A

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Sep 17, 2025

@alicemcalicepants @leymoo this makes some sense if you consider how a radio studio got telephone calls to air in the 80s, and what would likely be done to save on having an extra staff member to deal with the key and lamp unit - the hybrid is just a kind of "telephone" that connects to the studio mixer, and if it is left in "seized" mode all the connected lines at the key and lamp unit would be bridged.

BT wouldn't have particularly liked it, and there could even be a risk of putting the entire lot of calls to air (unless they were terminated on a hybrid at a studio not in use)

(I had to set up hybrids for the community radio station, they are somewhat cursed devices to get and keep running so this is very likely a hack someone at Capital thought up to save time/effort)

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)Sep 17, 2025

@vfrmedia @alicemcalicepants I think the next step is for me to to find someone at capital radio at the time to verify - I’ve enlisted help outside fediverse for this part. And the one I’m holding out for - would be amazing to see if anyone remembers dialling in - I think the Capital Radio Facebook group might be the best shot for that (mainly due to generation of person dialling in)

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo @alicemcalicepants

its something the engineers would have *not* been encouraged to do (neither by BT nor the IBA), but they would have got away with it for an inbound calls only set of circuits (BT *really* would not approve of 10 circuits being seized at once for an outbound call!)

You /might/ get a retired broadcast engineer confessing to it but some are still in employment so might not fess up to this having happened.

Global and Bauer are still very protective of their infrastructure - even recently they tasked Arqiva to look at old infrastructure for Radio Orwell Ipswich and noticed the community radio transmitter in the hospital plant room (which I helped install), although Arqiva were impressed with what we had achieved (and we have a fraction of their budgets!)

Ashley Rolfmore (leymoo)Sep 17, 2025

@vfrmedia @alicemcalicepants ah, that tracks but a mild shame. I suspect trying to get hold of anyone who remembers dialling in is an easier shot.

Alexander Bochmann Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo I know nothing of this but did some bored web searching, and there's at least one passing mention of something like this on the "Original Capital Radio" facebook group (which strangely is public): https://www.facebook.com/groups/2493776779/posts/10159533720801780/?comment_id=10159534124571780

"In the 1970's we had crossed lines galore when it was 01-388-1255 and chatting with other listeners!"

(There's also some discussion of who did what to sneak into their telephone competitions in other threads there...)

@vfrmedia @alicemcalicepants

Huw Cleaver

In the 1970's we had crossed lines galore when it was 01-388-1255 and chatting with other listeners!

Nick (Alatar the Blue)Sep 17, 2025

@leymoo I can't answer your question, but I'm going to drop this link to info about the Mojave Phone Booth here, because this thread seems to have turned into a "remember this similar thing" place, and I like the lore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojave_phone_booth

Mojave phone booth - Wikipedia

Ian Robinson Sep 17, 2025

@alatartheblue Fantastic 😊