Mastodawn

Steve Yelvington Sep 12, 2025

@benroyce
15% for that nutjob Sliwa is just insane.

@steve

well, we elected Trump. the same observation applies. americans are truly nuts

Aho Sep 12, 2025

@benroyce we clone Zohran 😺

@aho 💪 😤

@benroyce "How do we replicate it across the USA?"

We don't. We need to back whoever is the Democratic candidate is, and hopefully that candidate is the one who is most likely to succeed in their voting district/region.

And we should only boost what's good about the Democratic candidates. We should NEVER say, "Hold your nose and vote for them anyway." That is aiding the Republicans. Period.

No, there are naturally flaws in every Democrat. And there's an endless parade of loud voices already

@benroyce shouting out the flaws of any Democrat.

We do NOT need to be aiding to the din of anti-Democratic criticism.

If you prioritize attacking a Democrat, you are helping the Republicans win. Period. If you say, "Hold your nose," you are helping the Republicans win. Period.

Will anyone stop prioritizing attacking Democrats? Sigh ... I doubt it. I am not a happy camper.

@isaackuo

so many people don't recognize #toxicIdealism is an extremely easy #troll to suppress the #left vote

it's so easy to make a #socialMedia account, throw up some left signifiers in a profile, and troll away with high holy fire and brimstone about perfection

of course, some of these voices are real

but if anyone thinks this sentiment does anything except help #MAGA win, they are a fool

better or worse is the only options we will ever get

forever

choose better, and iterate

@isaackuo @benroyce I'll believe again that the Democrats can save us as soon as they quit taking AIPAC money and destroying actual leftist candidacies in their nascency.

The Democrats today have forsaken labor and solidarity for aggressively maintaining the neoliberal status quo, and it is not a winning formula.

@liquor_american @isaackuo

yes but the democrats are also mamdani, AOC, bernie sanders, etc

that some of the democratic party are AIPAC captured is obviously wrong, but it's not the whole party

and how do you fix that?

you show up and vote in the primaries and get real left candidates

how do you make sure the entire democratic party is captured by AIPAC?

easy: don't vote

that's why troll psyop farms do social media operations preying on toxic idealism to convince leftists not to vote

@benroyce @isaackuo Have been, will continue. But it's a real own-goal that the party has lifelong Dems like myself in a position where our trust has to be REgained in a time that we're also faced with the worst tyrant of our lifetime.

Dem party leaders share a religious conviction with the modern day Nazis, and that common ground is capital, not God. It's plain as day, but we're not supposed to talk about it because "circular firing squad."

Feels a lot like being manipulated by an abuser doesn't it

@liquor_american @isaackuo

treat the democratic party like an empty vessel

fill it with the people you want with your vote in the primaries

the democratic party is not an omnipotent alien force. it is not a monolithic entity. the centrist corpo dems are real and they do suck. but do not imagine they have vast power they in fact do not have. in fact, they are quite weak now

@benroyce @isaackuo This is a wonderful sentiment, but it completely ignores the *money* in our politics.

Yes, I will vote in primaries for candidates who also see that problem clearly. But that does precisely nothing to combat the financial barriers such a candidate faces from square one.

@liquor_american @isaackuo

which only gets changed when we're in power

which is an extremely hard ask

as if there is any other way

i'm not an airhead optimist. nor am i an empty whiny cynic. i say what i say only because i see no other way

@benroyce @liquor_american @isaackuo

Cannot. Be stated. enough. The "withhold my vote" theory of power is cursed.

@qkslvrwolf @benroyce @isaackuo Cannot agree more. But if Dems want us to shut up about holding our nose to vote for them, they ought to earn that. I can't tell that they're even trying on that point. It's just business as usual as far as they're concerned, and that's dangerous in the extreme.

@liquor_american @qkslvrwolf @isaackuo

do you vote in the primaries?

@benroyce @qkslvrwolf @isaackuo Every goddamn time

@liquor_american @qkslvrwolf @isaackuo

if you vote in the primaries then i have no argument with you and nothing but love for you

the problem is all those who don't, using the typical easy perfectionism whines to justify their impotence, when their inaction and not voting is exactly why the candidates suck

@benroyce @liquor_american @isaackuo And it's gotta just gotta just gotta be consistent.

And if there's not a "good" candidate in a primary, FIND ONE. VOLUNTEER.

One of the things folks don't get is that governing is really fucking hard. Join a ward committee or something and find out what it means.

epiPelagic Puck Sep 12, 2025

@qkslvrwolf @benroyce @liquor_american @isaackuo
And beware of false lib dems that will say all the right things, then switch after winning.

@benroyce @qkslvrwolf @isaackuo Gotta vote. Silencing your own voice is a goofy ass response to what's happening around us.

The party meddling and attempting to gatekeep specifically the primaries is something that absolutely has to stop. How to attack just that wrongheaded-but-treasured strategy and make it goddamn history?

@liquor_american @benroyce @isaackuo start local, go to conventions, make sure you have local candidates who are speaking out against that at party events.

TBH, in some ways, the zero-to-hero folks like AOC and (to a lesser extent) Mamdami are bad examples because that's not how we prove that we have power to the federal level candidates.

Inspirational people do not build a party, most of the time. They give people this idea that some superhero will show up and we can just vote for the good guy and forget about it.

That will never create a cohesive party.

@liquor_american @benroyce @isaackuo OH, and remember those principles from above when you speak at local events. Use non-violent communication. Don't shit on people that have been doing the work until you've done the work, but DO sell the righteous stuff. Be righteous, not *SELF*-righteous.
It ain't easy.

It's easy for neo-feudalist shitbags because there'll always be some billionaire out there ready to dump astroturf funding on whoever the local facebook loudmouth is.

@benroyce @liquor_american @qkslvrwolf I vote in all primaries ... well, I try to, but there are some that I miss.

Unfortunately, I don't keep up with local politics to even know who I'm voting for for most positions. I know I'm not doing as much as I should be.

@isaackuo @benroyce @liquor_american Don't beat yourself up. Find a team. Find folks to work with, to hold accountable, to go to local stuff, to keep each informed. Get you a signal group or a hylo account or a element bridge and just talk local shit. It makes it easier. It's also fun.

Democrats are a "kitchen sink" big tent party. They have to try and represent everyone who is not abjectly crazy in the republican ways, and a few people who are objectively crazy in other ways.

There's lifetimes of support and cooperation that have been built up with some of those (AIPAC), and those lfietimes don't go away easy.

This is a generational project. Even Mamdami isn't out of no where: he was a city councilor first. Local first.

@liquor_american @benroyce @isaackuo
But it's gotta be local, and consistent, and we need to get people going to like conventions and shit. Which there are some people doing. But there's a lot of other folks just complaining about the top of the pyramid and other folks federal reps.

That ain't gonna get us anywhere.

Here's the structural issues I am mad the party won't embrace:

- Modern voting (I'd say RCV as a catch-all, but there's always some approval or condorecet reply guy)
- Formalize "wings" of the party and figure out a way to make them meaningful in elections so when we don't have modern voting we can still have real general elections. Also, provides both the party and the voters with way more signal on the low-bandwidth comms link they have of "voting".

But also: https://newrepublic.com/article/195300/democratic-tea-party-bernie-aoc-failed-succeed

Why the Democratic Tea Party Failed (and How It Could Succeed)

For the left to win, it must blame fascism on the actual fascists.

The New Republic

To whit: ""All messaging should afford the right agency. Blame and anger for fascism should be focused on the fascists.
If you need to criticize Democratic politicians, run as being more pro-Democrat than they are, not less. The problem isn’t the party, it’s that they let the party down...."

And several other excellent principles at the end.

@qkslvrwolf @liquor_american @isaackuo

👏 👏 👏

thank you

{hat tip}

Sir Farts Alot Sep 12, 2025

@qkslvrwolf @liquor_american @benroyce @isaackuo I’m chairman of the Hot Springs County Democrats in a small, rural town in Wyoming. We recognize politics begins at the local level. We urge our members to apply or run for such mundane local boards such as the hospital, library or cemetery. Wyoming Democrats are Here for Good!

@horqua @qkslvrwolf @liquor_american @isaackuo

and thus you are the future

i can't wish enough that most whiny cynical voices online would recognize that this is the only way

Sir Farts Alot Sep 12, 2025

@benroyce @qkslvrwolf @liquor_american @isaackuo Thank you for your kind words!

@horqua @liquor_american @benroyce @isaackuo

NGL the juxtaposition of your mastodon name and this statement is pretty funny. :-)

@qkslvrwolf @horqua @liquor_american @isaackuo

i for one bow before Sir Farts Alot in admiration

Mark T. Tomczak Sep 12, 2025

@benroyce @liquor_american @isaackuo This is key. I sit at the polls. We still see big turnouts for general elections and very, very limited turnout for primaries.

Folks... I don't know how to make it clearer. Primaries are where the candidates are chosen. Trump is President because folks showed up to vote for him in the primary due to his face-appeal and the half-dozen other candidates on the ballot split the remaining vote.

Frank Skornia Sep 12, 2025

@mark @benroyce @liquor_american @isaackuo We just had local primaries in my town. Given that it was:
A) A Dem primary
B) A local election
C) A non-presidential election year & a non-state election year

You expect that turnout would be low and it was. Less than 3,000 people in a town of 92,000 voted to determine the person most likely to become mayor.

@fskornia @mark @liquor_american @isaackuo

this is why the usa is failing

people do not vote in the primaries

then complain the candidates suck

the candidates suck, because you didn't fucking show up in the primaries

complaining and whining the candidates suck will not stop them from sucking

what will stop them from sucking?

and... drum roll please... the answer is...

Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔Sep 14, 2025

@benroyce
@benroyce

It goes further back than that, having seen this from The Party's point of view.

Short version: Parties are at the mercy of who shows up to run. If the Right People don't run, the primaries will suck, too.

One of reasons people don't run is this pervasive idea that politicians are corrupt scumbags.

To be sure, you *do* want to keep an eye on them. Politics perhaps attracts more than it's fair share of sociopaths. (Then again pretty much *any* concentration of power will attract sociopaths and it continues to surprise me (not) how much attention and concern there is regarding govt. corruption vs. the shit that happens in private corporate boardrooms that no one thinks twice about).

1/2

Roger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔Sep 14, 2025

@benroyce

But if you treat with contempt the idea that someone might *want* to have a career in government or politics, that someone could become an expert at this stuff, that it's "naive" to think good things can be accomplished by working in government or running for office, or you don't support them, or, say, don't believe what they're doing is a full time job (cf. any number of state legislatures), don't give them funding to hire decent staff, make them spend all of their time raising campaign funds... all the while making them live in a fucking FISH BOWL with every aspect of their lives under scrutiny

...then why are you surprised that it's so hard to get good people to run or that they burn out so quickly?

2/2

Johns Sep 12, 2025

@fskornia @mark @benroyce @liquor_american @isaackuo What's crazy is that there aren't any laws declaring any election with less 25-30% turnout as invalid.
If they cannot even convince people to vote for them , are they really the best option?

@Johns_priv @fskornia @mark @liquor_american @isaackuo

the GOP are quite happy with achieving power with 25% of the people showing up

the easiest solution is just get these assholes who don't vote to show the fuck up

@liquor_american @isaackuo @benroyce

Martijn Vos Sep 12, 2025

Schumer and Jeffries have recently gone out of their way to convince people they're not good for the Democratic Party and in dire need to be primaried.

However, if that doesn't work, it's still better to have them in those seats than Republicans.

The primaries is where you change things.

I truly wish a third party was an option, but not only is the system rigged against third parties, most of the media are also biased against them. It's will be an incredibly hard battle, and you're simply not going to win this if you don't have a very large percentage of the people behind you.

And failing that, primaries are your only option. Use them.

Galad Sep 12, 2025

@mcv @liquor_american @benroyce @isaackuo Chuck Schumer is a human doormat and should be primaried by AOC.

@isaackuo @benroyce

> we should only boost what's good about the Democratic candidates.

No, that's not democracy. "People can make mistakes" is a fundamental argument you need to stand behind.

> We should NEVER say, "Hold your nose and vote for them anyway."

Yes, you should, or you elect fascists.

@lax @isaackuo

exactly

not voting helps elect fascists: MAGA

of course centrist corporate dems suck. we need real left candidates

toxic idealism does not make that happen, in fact, it immobilizes and removes people from participation

@benroyce @isaackuo

> not voting helps elect fascists: MAGA

that's what I'm saying?????

@lax @isaackuo

oh. lol

apologies

i need to drink more coffee

i'll edit my comment

😅

'> We should NEVER say, "Hold your nose and vote for them anyway."

Yes, you should, or you elect fascists.'

you're saying should vote. you're not saying should say

@lax @benroyce Yes, it IS democracy.

Let's say you have an opinion about how good Lay's Potato Chips are. You think they're middle of the road ... not that great, not that bad.

But for some reason the bulk of people out there say Lay's Potato Chips are worse than week old banana peels.

In order to bring the "average" to what you believe, you don't say Lay's are middling. You say Lay's are great. That's how DEMOCRACY works, for better and worse.

@isaackuo @benroyce no. You say they're imperfect, but they're the best you've got.

When you say democrats are perfect, you support a centrist position instead of your own leftist one. That moves the average to the *right*, not to the left.

@lax @benroyce I fundamentally disagree.

I look at it like systemic racism. You will NEVER solve racism by hiring and setting pay "colorblind". Because this will NEVER pull the needle to equity. There's all those racists out there pulling the average to racist.

It is an obligation to pull the needle further.

@isaackuo @benroyce you're pulling the needle *towards* racism when saying democrats are perfect. You're figuratively and literally increasing white people's pay hoping that everyone will agree with you but no one will because you'll be too woke for the right and too racist for the left

@isaackuo @benroyce pick a position. Run with it without fighting about terms. Is it "genocide" or "socialism"? Doesn't matter, the war has got to stop and prices have got to decrease.

*That* way, you'll win.

@lax @isaackuo

i understand both your and isaac's position

but since you both vote, i have no argument with either of your positions, however either of you arrive at the most important thing: action

the next order is to continue to vote and iterate further left to better. voting of course is the only way to get that

the real problem is broken rationales that convince people not to vote

these are troll psyops, or fundamentally impotent, ineffectual people clinging to immature perfectionism

Dieu Sep 12, 2025

@benroyce @lax @isaackuo I'm with Isaac when it comes to demands. Demand a lot so that you may still get enough if you have to make compromises. But I don't think ignoring the faults of specific politicians will help, it'll just erode trust in you and your judgement.

@hllizi @benroyce @isaackuo fwiw, telling your only not flat out fascist option you won't vote for them unless is just raw stupidity and nothing more

But not criticizing them is perhaps even stupider

Dieu Sep 12, 2025

@lax @benroyce @isaackuo *telling them* you won't vote for them might actually accomplish something by not allowing them to become fully complacent, *actually* not voting for them is where it gets terminally foolish.

@hllizi @lax @benroyce Unfortunately, high level politicians have access to very accurate internal polling techniques to determine whether or not the voters will *actually* not vote for them, as opposed to what they say.

The accuracy of internal polling is a double edged sword.