Mastodawn

Roni Laukkarinen

Fediverse is still the most lively social network I have ever used, since MySpace in 2003. It is better than Twitter or any commercial social media platform ever was. Absolutely love being here.

The most profound thing about it is the international coverage. After the first wave of enshittification in 2010, algorithms took over, and suddenly as a polyglot I was labeled as Finnish. No more visible international posts, people only saw the Finnish ones.

I've noticed the same effect in commercial AI. It ignores the fact that I use English online 99% of the time and still replies to me in Finnish despite all instructions. Algorithms and AI label you. They assign you a language, a status, a certain type of person. There's no changing that.

The Fediverse and Mastodon are delightfully mine, yours, and truly open source - respecting privacy. Nobody's machine can tell you, "You are this, and this is why we do that."

Fuck labelers and the fog machines. Let me be me. Here, on my own server, I can embrace my weirdness and post however I want, how often I want, whenever I want, in whatever language I choose - without constantly worrying about how my identity will be perceived by a machine.

#SocialMedia #Mastodon #Fediverse

PaNel82cz 6d ago

@rolle mastodon is great 👍

PaNel82cz 6d ago

@rolle I kind of don't feel safe on Bluesky and I canceled all other social media...

Valoisa SivuttaisMicroFlutter 6d ago

@rolle You carry the spirit of the Mastodon here in Finland. Extremely respectable.

Roni Laukkarinen 6d ago

@valoisa I try to keep the spirits up! What a nice thing to say, thank you!

Baron Henrik von Pömpöösi 6d ago

@valoisa @rolle

Totally agree!

Todd needs beer, badly. 🍻6d ago

@rolle Well said. And I absolutely love being here too.

@rolle There’s a big benefit working in software design when you come from a small country. We’re far more aware of the nuances of language, identity politics, cultural differences etc.

fabrizio 6d ago

@rolle si qua ognuno a la libertà

Phoenix Paulina Schmid 6d ago

@rolle I would even go as far and wouldn't call "commerical social media" social media but commericial media.

Siegfried.6d ago

@rolle Great summary!

Roni Laukkarinen 6d ago

@realSiegfried Thanks!

@realSiegfried @rolle

I second that: a great summary & a wonderfully lively & interesting discussion in this thread! I cannot imagine participating in anything like this in any other social media form. 🙂

Tim Chambers 6d ago

@rolle Well put.

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK 6d ago

@rolle I get similar but from the other side, I try to read something every day in a language other than English but commercial networks rarely send me content in the other languages I understand (even if I declare them), which would only make sense if their priority is to deliver adverts and sponsored posts (especially in a country blighted by Brexit, where its now harder to trade with the rest of Europe)

Al Wirtes 6d ago

@rolle As an American, I follow people from around the world on the Fediverse. I appreciate that the lack of an algorithm means that I get to interact with them without filter. I love that Australia and New Zealand are waking up when I go to sleep. And I love catching up on what’s happening in Europe when I wake up.

My feed is curated by me alone. And I’ve never had such a strong sense of the entire world before. This is energizing and exciting. And oh so threatening to the status quo.

Pinchy63 🇨🇦6d ago

@alwirtes @rolle
Mastodon is so cool. It’s where you can follow a potato with googly eyes!

JustRosy 🇺🇦6d ago

@alwirtes @rolle Amen to that!

crazyeddie 6d ago

@alwirtes @rolle When playing EvE online I got to participate in globally active wars that went on for years. Was always a relay of timezones. Lots of fun, especially when the wars got hot but the patrolling was fun too.

As an Australian I do the same - only from the other side of the world & time zone. In a way it is like listening to shortwave radio when you couldn't sleep as a child. 🙂

I also love the opportunity to keep my rudimentary language skills up by puzzling through the toots people make in the languages I know: the rest of the world is so interesting! Finnish looks hard though... (a humorous remark).

felis_catus_domesticus 5d ago

@alwirtes @rolle

a/s/l ?

@rolle it's so nice, there's actually people here, not bots. Mostly.

lisawilliams 6d ago

@rolle Agree completely!

Dror Bedrack 6d ago

@rolle lack of algorithm gives back the power to the user. Yes, you need to work on it now. But you get the feed you choose, not the one fed to you by some pre-conceived notion of who you are and what you want.

@rolle well-stated.

crazyeddie 6d ago

@rolle I actually used myspace way back and since one of the things I posted was music, it's still there. Doesn't seem to actually play though.

https://myspace.com/roadkilltaxidermy/music/song/lather-and-rinse-17072003-16873188

The picture of my ass as I'm climbing into my jeep is also gone.

People used to post whole essays there. It was great. Had my life threatened for pointing out someone's blatant and superfluous plagiarism. Everyone wanted to be a twit though so it died.

Tom's doing great though I hear.

Lather and Rinse

Lather and Rinse by Roadkill Taxidermy: Listen to songs by Roadkill Taxidermy on Myspace, a place where people come to connect, discover, and share.

Myspace

Roni Laukkarinen 6d ago

@crazyeddie Nothing is there any more... my old profile: https://myspace.com/ellor

crazyeddie 6d ago

@rolle It sucks. I don't think I have a copy of that anymore and it's the only thing I ever made that I called "complete".

kikebenlloch 6d ago

@rolle there were no language filters in the early Internet and it was better thanks to that

Nicole Parsons 6d ago

Algorithms and AI are worsening the political and cultural divides of all nations.

Republicans, and other far right voters, are stuck in an information bubble starting with Fox News and then Twitter and now Truth Social.

Algorithms & AI are deepening that divide with the help of Russian bots and Koch Network PR manipulation.

Mastodon actively supports a broader access to information.

It's like walking down the aisles of a wonderful book store or public library.

william.maggos 6d ago

@Npars01 @rolle

mostly. conservatives get treated in ways we'd never tolerate for others here and on bluesky. or they quickly get blocked here when people could just not follow or mute them. thus few try it out.

(not referring to the obvious trolls who need to be reported)

Nicole Parsons 6d ago

@wjmaggos @rolle

Conservatives get blocked because they espouse views actively divorced from reality, facts, and decency.

Even their purported views like land trusts for preserving species diversity for hunting & fishing have been discarded.

They want to drill for oil on every bit of public lands including national parks.

william.maggos 6d ago

@Npars01 @rolle

but like somebody posting dumb shit on their blog back in the day, they can post it and nobody need see it. we didn't need to try to push them off the web or stop browsers from accessing their sites. we don't need to push them off fedi.

as long as we police for unwanted mentions and we remain algo free, we should all be able to coexist. as much as people might stumble on their stuff and go right, they might stumble on ours and go left. and we have the better info/arguments.

Nicole Parsons 6d ago

@wjmaggos @rolle

There can be no mutual coexistence with Nazis.

They don't believe in it.

The billionaires behind the GOP are funding the erasure of billions of people.

1 billion alone will die from famine by the end of the century.

1.2 billion climate refugees.

They activately funded herd immunity narratives & antivaxxers that killed over 1.7 million Americans.

They are prepared to go to war for their fossil fuel agenda.

william.maggos 6d ago

@Npars01 @rolle

they don't but they exist in our world and always have, so we're doing it all the time. we just don't let them do the bad things. letting them be on fedi without bothering people is just like letting them have blogs that they email around (now boost).

and most people have conservative (not Nazi) friends/family that would be shouted down here if they honestly expressed their opinions. so of course they stay on big tech and get pushed further right. we need to change that.

@wjmaggos @Npars01 @rolle Show me a conservative idea not based on racism, homophobia, xenophobia or lack of care for the planet. I'll wait.

I don't want to speak or hear anyone with those views honestly. If I wanted, I have a whole side of the family who's still very much pro-Franco.

william.maggos 6d ago

@Johns_priv @Npars01 @rolle

I am not arguing for conservative views.

but should that part of your family get blocked and bombarded with mean replies (in a way we'd never tolerate towards lefties here) for joining the fedi and honestly expressing their opinions?

[I am not saying you need to follow them or that they should be allowed to bother others here. see how we let people browse to any site vs how we have email spam blocking programs.]

isn't it worse to have your family get Xed etc...

@wjmaggos @Johns_priv @Npars01 @rolle yes, they should. It's perfectly reasonable to have spaces where not every opinion is welcomed.

william.maggos 6d ago

@mhanson101 @Johns_priv @Npars01 @rolle

this is true also. group tech vs what we have with AP which is very much like the web where we don't limit access by default.

trying to do what you want with auto federating FOSS tech seems a little silly to me. probably should be opt in. better to fork it imo.

@wjmaggos @Johns_priv @Npars01 @rolle there are plenty of places for "conservatives" to hang out and express their opinions. I'm not sure why you're taking the time to argue that EVERY space should be open to them. Claiming that their viewpojnt isn't respected and that therefore it's not a welcoming place is disingenuous and spurious. However you want to couch it in tech terms.

Nicole Parsons 6d ago

@wjmaggos @rolle

I'm not advocating for pre-emptive bans of conservative voices. I ban liars. I ban people who are actively working to kill others.

I do not advocate for bans on lurkers while they learn another's POV.

Conservatives exist but don't want others to do the same. They have an agenda of dominance & imposing their desires on the unwilling.

They are sabotaging the votes of others, undermining the rights of others, abusing the law to hurt others, forcing their religion on others.

william.maggos 6d ago

@Npars01 @rolle

so all conservatives are not liars and want to kill and many other things you wrote, right? but they'd all get treated bad here, right? shouldn't that not be so?

but the ones that do want to do all the things you wrote (that we're not already going after for being illegal), I don't get how we can say they should be allowed on the net but harassed/blocked off fedi.

as @mhanson101 says, there should also be spaces with any limits people want. just not fedi or the web imho.

@wjmaggos @Npars01 @rolle hard disagree. Never understood why the web is supposed to be this special place where no limits somehow creates a utopia of openness, when that's clearly not how human beings work. The biggest asshole ruins it for everyone unless they're stopped. The internet is just people interacting, it's just like a coffee shop, or a park, it's not mystical or immune from human nature. In fact many elements of it select for the worst parts of human nature.

william.maggos 6d ago

@mhanson101 @Npars01 @rolle

the web isn't supposed to be special and the biggest jerk only ruins things if we let them. the specialness comes from decentralization w/o algos but with moderation that lets everybody share a network but only see each other to the degree we choose to. that's why it has worked so well and what we could do better here IMO.

people import norms from big tech with algos over here, not realizing that the Nazi bar problem isn't an issue on the open web with nazi sites.

@wjmaggos @Npars01 @rolle I am so confused. You seemed to be arguing that it was bad to not be inclusive of conservatives, and bad to restrict access to abusive family, and now you're saying that it's great that we can limit access. But also that it's not actually a problem that we need to worry about because nazis have their own spaces?

william.maggos 6d ago

@mhanson101 @Npars01 @rolle

I'm arguing for taking advantage of decentralization here to maximize everybody being able to see what they want here, including conservatives. that's possible because we don't have ads or algos, when we also moderate for unwanted mentions (including mean replies to conservatives, not just progressives).

this ability to mix how we choose is not possible on closed platforms with algos, but people should be able to have those with any rules they want also.

@wjmaggos @Npars01 @rolle creating spaces without protection for the vulnerable, persecuted, disadvantaged, etc just makes a space that is hostile to those people, it doesn't make it inclusive.

Right wingers and their apologists can get fucked trying to gaslight people into thinking that if they're hostile to dangerous people, they are the morally flawed one and the actual problem.

william.maggos 6d ago

@mhanson101 @Npars01 @rolle

I support going hard on all unwanted mentions, and fediblocking servers that don't police accounts that do that.

again, that's different than somebody who posts a conservative view without tagging anybody. today, that person might get a ton of mean replies here. vs a progressive view where such negative replies would be cause for moderating those replying.

both sets of replies should be dealt w carefully, trying to let the conversation happen but not be mean.

@wjmaggos @Npars01 @rolle so basically you're just saying don't do mean replies? Sure that's great, but those conservatives that you're standing up for have the same ability to block and limit access so I'm not sure why you're so upset for them.

Are you also going on Twitter and telling those people to make safe spaces for other views or is it just the conservatives (who apparently defibrillator are not you) that you're sticking up for?

william.maggos 6d ago

@mhanson101 @Npars01 @rolle

yes, don't do mean replies to anybody. but the policy here (and it's good) has never been to ask every user to block the mean people themselves every time. they get reported and stopped from bothering others. servers that host lots of assholes get fediblocked. I agree w that. just do that for harassing anybody.

as I said, on closed places like twitter with algos, the owner is doing propaganda. yeah, I'll tell Zuck not to push meta glasses too.

we have power here.

@wjmaggos @Npars01 @rolle so my takeaway from all that is block and report assholes, but make sure you don't block conservatives who haven't directly targeted individuals even if their views are abhorrent and question the very humanity of people you care about, and also don't challenge conservatives on their views in aggressive ways? Thank you for the PSA? You seem very concerned that conservatives have a good time. I'm glad someone has dared to stand up for the comfort of the rich white man.

william.maggos 6d ago

@mhanson101 @Npars01 @rolle

or maybe we should instead take your approach and scour the web for every website with stuff we don't like and harass them until that's all taken down, no matter if you're the only person outside of the site owner that has ever seen it. /snark

I'm very concerned that we're all talking to each other civilly cause I think that's ultimately how knowledge and empathy expands and the moral arc bends toward justice in the most sustainable way. the fedi can help a lot.

@wjmaggos @Npars01 @rolle no one is doing that. You're fighting battles that don't exist for people who don't want the moral arc to bend toward justice.

william.maggos 6d ago

@mhanson101 @Npars01 @rolle

were they born evil?

@wjmaggos @Npars01 @rolle no, they've chosen to be because of privilege and lack of introspection and empathy

william.maggos 6d ago

@mhanson101 @Npars01 @rolle

so I think that means they can choose again.

@wjmaggos @Npars01 @rolle excellent, keep fighting the good fight of taking on the oppressed in order that the oppressors will have another opportunity to choose whether to be oppressive.

Roni Laukkarinen 6d ago

@wjmaggos Following this discussion from the sidelines, I understand both of your points. Our instance is very liberal, and I do not support blocking instances that don't block some other instances - that's absurd. However, I also recognize that nazis and abusers have no place in my part of the Fediverse. Supporting right-wing policies doesn't automatically make someone a human scum. For example, our company has people across the entire spectrum - politically, ideologically, and by identity. If I don't like or agree with someone, it doesn't give me the right to harass them. @mhanson101 @Npars01

@rolle @wjmaggos @Npars01 I agree, I don't think anyone is saying that they have free reign to harass people. I do believe people have a right to defend themselves and to not be forced to act cordial with someone who isn't engaging in good faith, or who has a position that is furthering an agenda of harassment even if they "play nice" though.

TomasHradcky 6d ago

@wjmaggos @Npars01 @rolle My blocking any person or instance does nothing to their ability to be on the fediverse.

There is nothing I post, from my experience within my own extended family, that will intrigue or turn them. My posts are the fuel they crave to feed their righteous anger.

I’m not going to participate in any of that.