Mastodawn

Gaming Channel 2d ago

#QuestionOfTheDay what's a work that started off doing something that's not actually what the work is about or turned out to be but that you wish it had stuck with?

to give examples of what I mean: the anime Street Fighter 2 V started as a travelogue of Ken and Ryu touring different countries to learn different cultures and fighting styles before very quickly becoming Street Fighter 2 and inevitably having M. Bison take over the narrative and be about fighting him and I wish they had stuck with being a travelogue

Another I've heard are ppl who wish the bait and switch of S1 Babylon 5 didn't happen & it stayed as a goofy Trek episode of the week knockoff instead of LotR in space

#fiction #art #books #movies #film #television #tv #videogames #games #ttrpg #ccgs #anime #manga #music

Ami Angelwings 2d ago

More examples: There's people who wish Yuuki Yuuna stuck with the darkness all the way to the end instead of being a repudiation of the post-Madoka "kill the girls and make the fanboys cheer" trend (but that was already hinted at earlier in the anime when it was pointed out that throughout history there's been maiden sacrifices and young girls being destroyed for the benefit of others)

A lot of modern franchise installments have an interesting idea to start with that has to inevitably make way for what the franchise has to be (the most recent Karate Kid has reviewers wishing they stuck with the inversion of the kid teaching the old man, for eg, or JJ Trek ending up with Kirk as captain anyway instead of trying something new like Spock stays as captain and Kirk is second or something)

Arcadiagt5 2d ago

@ami_angelwings Whilst I had some problems with #YuYuYu, overall I was happy for it to be its own thing. :)

Ami Angelwings 2d ago

@arcadiagt5 me too

Arcadiagt5 2d ago

@ami_angelwings I certainly had some the best engagement to my writing on my #YuYuYu “final” thoughts blog post. I’ve since adjusted some of the views I expressed there, and I haven’t yet written follow-up posts (I think) to cover the later seasons of the anime (which DO change a lot of my concerns, eventually) https://piratesobg.wordpress.com/2014/12/26/yuki-yuna-wa-yusha-de-aru-2014-final-thoughts-with-spoilers/

Yūki Yūna wa Yūsha de Aru (2014): Final Thoughts with Spoilers

Despite some very emotionally satisfying moments I think Yūki Yūna wa Yūsha de Aru may have stumbled at the finish like so many anime before it. I think that the problem is that the finale is satis…

Pirates of the Burley Griffin

Ami Angelwings 2d ago

@arcadiagt5 yeah the disability part was disappointing especially when I realized what the twist was for Togo when she spawned multiple helpers at the beginning and I deduced that the two extra ones were her legs and her memory loss. But I also do get that a lot of the metaphor was also about them being soldiers and the way war disables the young people we throw into the grinder.

It's also interesting how each character represents a different kind of intention for a soldier (duty, nationalism, loyalty, competitiveness, and heroism)

I think your review is very good!

As for the show I like it for a critique of the post-Madoka magical girl snuff genre, and how we had turned the torture of little girls and their hopes and dreams into entertainment and likening it to maiden sacrifices.

Arcadiagt5 2d ago

@ami_angelwings Thanks, the kind words are appreciated. I will note that I’m very much inclined to listen on the topic of the disabilities - beyond being chronically short sighted and poorly coordinated I can’t really speak to that with experience, let alone authority.

Arcadiagt5 2d ago

@ami_angelwings Seeing #yuyuyu as a critique, or at the very least a response to #MadokaMagica is entirely fair. I also think you’re right, especially now that I HAVE seen the follow up seasons on HiDIVE (and whilst those do have their issues, they do address many of the key concerns).

ShouldBeGaminButDoomscrollin 2d ago

@ami_angelwings Beforeigner season 1 is a genuinely quite funny, in the form of historical people isekai'd into modern Norway, as social commentary regarding to immigrations, immigrants adapting to modern Norway, and Norwegian adapting to multiculturalism. It's also the only isekai I've seen where it is about being an immigrant learning the new world, rather than defaulting to the new world exists as power fantasy for protagonist.

Season 2 is... I don't even know what that is. A Darker and Edgier drama took itself way too seriously, and ended up as a forgettable generic hollywood wannabe borefest. Then the last episode it introduced the most bizarre plot twist that felt like a new writer who wasn't involved in the project suddenly was given a 24 hours deadline to come up with something. Might have worked if it's a different series altogether? Doubt it, but certainly imagine if the last episode of Park and Rec took a turn for Zero Escape for no reasons.

Ami Angelwings 2d ago

@BigShellEvent I appreciate you answering all my questions

ShouldBeGaminButDoomscrollin 2d ago

@ami_angelwings you ask fun questions

Ami Angelwings 2d ago

@BigShellEvent I think so but nobody answers them ):

ShouldBeGaminButDoomscrollin 2d ago

@ami_angelwings i am baffled!

Irenes (many)2d ago

@ami_angelwings @BigShellEvent we just have trouble thinking of a work we've been disappointed in, lately. everything has either been really cool, or plainly not for us from within the first minute

@ami_angelwings Star Trek Deep Space Nine immediately comes to mind.

Season 1 and especially season 2 and 3 was very big about the Bajorans trying to rebuild their ruined world while their hearts are still at war, and Cardassians trying to reform and democratize their fascist state. And the Federation being at a loss about what to do with the Maquis.
And by season 5 they fully committed to "throw all of this out, lets make a giant galactic war epic instead!"

Booo...

Ami Angelwings 2d ago

@yora OH I COMPLETELY AGREE, I'm one of the few who really loved early season DS9 and the politics and stuff and I hated when it became yet another 90s invasion arc (90s really loved their invasion arcs, Yuuzhan Vong, nWo, Dominion, Kromaggs, etc)

Ami Angelwings 2d ago

@yora it's also funny how DS9 wasn't a response to 9/11 (that was Enterprise) but it feels like it is because they got attacked by an implacable exotic enemy who literally hated them for their freedoms and where the good guys were "forced" by the threat to do bad things to win much like the US framed itself as being forced to torture people etc post 9/11

@ami_angelwings Starship Troopers is my favorite movie about the US invasion of Afghanistan from the 90s.

Those attacks did not come out of nowhere. People had seen it brewing for years and didn't have to be strategic analysts to know exactly how it would play out. The cancer was already present in American society, and the military-political machine on auto-pilot.

Robert Hutchinson 15h ago

@yora Fully agree, and I'd only add that they could've found much better things to do with the Gamma Quadrant than "bad guys be here".

I recently stumbled across the trivia that after "Children of Time" near the end of the fifth season, there isn't a single scene set in the GQ until the end of the finale.

@ertchin I believe the Cardassian opposition ceases to exists in 5x15, and think the last mention of the Maquis is 5x32.
And it's more difficult to look up when Bajoran reconstruction was abandoned, but I believe it was after 5x10.

There are some good episodes in season 6 and 7, but they were really burning all their bridges in season 5.

Leo'Jet Ski Fuel'nardo 2d ago

@ami_angelwings Angel. Flat as the first season is, it and season two have a good noir/pulpy philosophising thing going. Angel's goal is to help people being slowly eaten alive by the ultimate vampire, life in the 21st century. By season three it's all about prophecies and apocalypses and Whedon doing increasingly creepy shit Charisma Carpenter's character. The only people Angel's detective agency are helping by the middle of the show are people who can tell them things about prophecy shit.

Arcadiagt5 2d ago

@LeoJetSkiFuelnardo @ami_angelwings Fair

@ami_angelwings The Frieren anime starts off as a journey though a mysterious world that we mostly learn about in past tense, being about Frieren and fam growing as people while cleaning up after past solutions. Then the series ends with a solid ten episodes of Mages Pissing On Each Other to show off how cool Frieren is. Oh well.

Irenes (many)2d ago

@thepi @ami_angelwings yeah we did find that to be a questionable choice... there was a video defending the arc, which had some thoughtful points, but it sure was a tonal shift

the manga keeps going and there's a ton of material after that point that's, like, not a tournament arc. for what that's worth

Deconstructed Drac 2d ago

@ami_angelwings Chowder on Cartoon Network. It started as a show about a quiet, shy kid having adventures while learning to cook.

It became about a kid who was constantly screaming, while learning to cook.

Deconstructed Drac 2d ago

@ami_angelwings It's kind of amazing how drastically the tone shifted from cute and funny to loud and obnoxious.

Press Rouch 2d ago

@ami_angelwings Star Trek: Voyager sets up the premise of a crew divided between Starfleet and Maquis, struggling to survive alone in the Delta Quadrant, and immediately turns into by the numbers Trek with no crew conflict and plentiful resources.

Ami Angelwings 2d ago

@press_rouch this is also a big thing that annoys @aesmael !

@ami_angelwings @press_rouch It's true

@press_rouch @ami_angelwings Wait, don't they frequently have issues with insufficient this or that which they have to find trade for or search for getting them into trouble? I remember at least one such trade setup by Neelix that triggered some pretty major problems for them.

I mean they have the replicator, but it has limits on what it can do. Stuff like water, no problem sure, but some of the more complex things needed to keep even those running can be a different story. (And there's even a segment where even replicator usage has to be rationed carefully.)

And omg there is so much crew conflict...

Ami Angelwings 2d ago

@nazokiyoubinbou @press_rouch everything you're saying basically happens right at the beginning though and very quickly for the later seasons they forget it all

@ami_angelwings Back to my unjustified obsession with the Rideback manga/anime - the initial premise was about Rin quitting dance (her big life passion) after an injury, and how getting into moto-robots gives her a renewed sense of community and freedom. I've not seen mecha piloting depicted so joyfully, before or since. Honestly it's a stealth parasports story at first!

Then there's a thing about rideback AIs introduced, and finally the terrorism vs tyranny plotline dominates the rest of the story. I appreciate where the author was trying to go, especially with the theme of who controls technology? But the worldbuilding and characters just can't support it and nothing coherent comes out.

@ami_angelwings The thing is, I don't think Rideback needed to ditch either of these genres to work. A more grounded dystopia where people hide their passions, retreat into escapism, and fear betrayal by their own community provides plenty of depth to explore and break from a more typical rivalry/tournament sports format.

I don't even think the supporting cast needed to be made likeable. A main character who falls into a hobby that heals her but surrounds her with assholes is amazingly relatable and would be peak storytelling.

Ami Angelwings 2d ago

@socks this reminds me of Arisa which is a great manga about Tsubasa, the tomboy gang leader twin of the perfect student president sister, Arisa who seems to have the perfect life and boyfriend. One day Arisa tries to kill herself and ends up in a coma after telling Tsubasa her life isn't perfect. Tsubasa finds a note to Arisa that says "Arisa Sonoda is a traitor". She disguises herself as her sister and lives get sister's life to find out what's going on and discovers that every lunch at her sister's school the students all text a mysterious "King" their wishes and "King" makes one wish come true, often in violent ways (a guy wishes for a girl to stop looking at other guys over him she she gets blinded, etc), and Tsubasa has to figure out who King is. Basically Light Yagami vs Nancy Drew

Ami Angelwings 2d ago

@socks and it delivers all the way until the end when the author, who has only written romance to this point, pulls all the tension back and nobody's actually very injured, and actually the bad guy is just misunderstood and the power of love will fix him, and then it's just a happy ending and Tsubasa never actually gets to fulfill all her potential as a detective, though she does solve the case and win and it's pretty disappointing from where it starts

It's still a great concept that I want to see adapted into an anime or even an American TV show because it's very easy to adapt to anything

@ami_angelwings I'll take Demon Princess Nancy Drew - and FIX IT

@ami_angelwings Well, yesterday something triggered me to remember Charlotte. It starts off as an almost silly, happy-go-lucky anime and then it turned in such a way that is a pretty hard punch in the gut to the viewers. Like I wouldn't be shocked if it could traumatize some people watching it.

(I don't want to post spoilers of course, but I do think it's fair to warn people that it does that big about-face in a very unpleasant way.)

VilhelmMattson 2d ago

@ami_angelwings Graydon Saunders' Commonweal, the first book is about a society banding together and trying to avoid being ruled by wizard kings like everyone else in the post apocalyptic world and how even the wizards who agree with them are massive inhuman weirdos. So of course the second and third is all about a wizard school and how actually wizards are so cool and better than you. Supposedly the 4th and on go back a bit, but my goodwill was spent at that point.

But will also just generally when a monster of the week show goes all in on metaplot/everything is connected/world ending threats, it almost always looses what made it interesting.

Philip Eagle 1d ago

@ami_angelwings That's a bit dismissive of B5 S1, there's something attractive about a space opera show about diplomacy and how NOT to end up fighting wars. On the DVD of the Doctor Who story "Frontier in Space" there's a bit in one of the special features about how in US shows attempts to avoid war always fail because the writers think war stories are exciting, but feel the need to include a token effort for peace to keep the leads sympathetic. Always thought that was a dig at both B5 and DS9.

Ami Angelwings 1d ago

@Philegal yeah the original pitch in S1 of B5 as a UN in space was also very good

Philip Eagle 1d ago

@ami_angelwings Ny actual example is the first episode of Alias which genuinely made me angry. A CIA operative discovers that her bosses are ruthless enough to kill her boyfriend because she told him too much, and has to decide whether to accept it or go rogue. Except her employers are actually a SPECTRE-type group pretending to be the CIA, and the actual CIA are lovely benevolent people.