Mastodawn

your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦

i keep forgetting to bring attention to this issue: the #fediverse needs an online payment processor that is NOT #Paypal.

https://mstdn.social/@juliewebgirl/114716564406122100

i do not use them as a bank. they have no reason to ask me for a photocopy of my passport and a mug shot (frontal and sideways). and this isn’t the only fuckery theyve pulled with me.

Stripe does NOT present itself as an alternative for individuals; only for corporate entities.

why are y’all using Thiel & Musk’s Paypal mafia bank?

Julie Webgirl (@juliewebgirl@mstdn.social)

Attached: 1 image So I decided to get my PayPal functional again. They want a business document to prove I am who I am. Fine. @elfin you're gonna love this one. There are 2 things they required. 1) personal id which had already been done ages ago, maybe proof of address (env.) and 2) business document So I send what's handy, a redacted excise tax doc from WA State. They approved that. But NOW... 3 more requirements appear INCLUDING PASSPORT Nope. I'm ripping all my data out & DELETE ACCT 1/ #infosec

Mastodon 🐘

Space Catitude 🚀5d ago

@blogdiva
Precisely because of the lack of alternatives.

Going to be looking into this later this year, if for no other reason than that I'm going to be rolling out a self-hosted storefront (because Gumroad kind of did a rug-pull on me -- not that I ever really trusted them).

Julie Webgirl 5d ago

@TerryHancock
I use Square and haven't had any issues.
@blogdiva

Kim Scheinberg 5d ago

@blogdiva
mas.to uses ko.fi for payments

your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦5d ago

@kims ko.fi uses Paypal as a processor. they wont release money directly to my bank.

AccordionBruce 5d ago

@blogdiva @kims
Yeah. Everywhere is PayPal or Shopify which are both pretty bad

Pomegranate_Stew 5d ago

@blogdiva @kims
Ah. So this is why I can’t use ko.fi to make payments. I nuked my PayPal account. Thanks for the info.

Drifthood 5d ago

@blogdiva @kims for creators: have you checked out steady, could not find the payment processor but cannot remember that i pay there with paypal

https://steady.page/en/

Steady — One ecosystem for those who create

Giving independent media makers everything they need to build and manage a thriving membership community.

Keeper of the orb 5d ago

@blogdiva ive seen librepay floated but idk its actual reputation or if its just another cash app or zelle or venmo or etc

your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦5d ago

@hi_cial they also use Paypal as a payment processor; instead of dealing directly with the banks

Keeper of the orb 5d ago

@blogdiva thaaatd be why it didnt take off rip

comradery.co is in an open beta offering a way for folks to use stripe as "online magazine subscription" aka subbing the blog/letter u post from there but its still stripe, its still a bottleneck

@blogdiva thank you. this has been bugging me so much, and I am myself getting "get paypal loans!!". superduperfuckthatshit.

@blogdiva Stripe seems to fit the "not attached to paypal" need, I am working on switching to it.

your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦5d ago

@thejikz but you need to be incorporated, correct?

@blogdiva it did not on my very old account, I had no business for it whatsoever and used it for years.
I have not added my EIN and such on the new account yet though, or finished linking banks.
So for me it should work fine, but anyone can still enter Sole Proprieter.

Searched to check, glad I looked now. Soft confirmation-

Link: (stripe support)
https://support.stripe.com/questions/selling-on-stripe-without-a-separate-business-entity

Selling on Stripe without a separate business entity : Stripe: Help & Support

Find help and support for Stripe. Our support site provides answers on all types of situations, including account information, charges and refunds, and subscriptions information. Get your questions answered and find international support for Stripe.

cwicseolfor 5d ago

@thejikz I think the word "separate" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that article title - the intent is not that people transact without a business at all, it's that unregistered (e.g. new, or else sole-proprietor) businesses would also be eligible. Which to me implies they're going to automatically categorize all your transactions as reportable business revenue for taxes, which sounds like a tax nightmare if you're not actually operating a business of some kind. @blogdiva

cwicseolfor 5d ago

@thejikz (A lot of tax-reportable activities don't get printed on a form from the company if they're below a certain threshold, like if you have bank interest under $10, but technically you're still liable to report that income, so it'd be good to verify with Stripe and a tax pro if you think something might have been muddied.)
@blogdiva

Eric Jennings 4d ago

@blogdiva @thejikz

i use stripe as an individual, not incorporated. started a few years ago and it was easy enough. maybe things have changed...?

MissConstrue 4d ago

@patamystic @blogdiva @thejikz

I also used stripe as an individual and as a sole proprietor, it's been a while, but I don't remember getting tax forms from them.

MissConstrue 4d ago

@patamystic @blogdiva @thejikz

And yes, PP can fuck off into the sun.

Ben Pate 🤘🏻3d ago

Most credit card processors don't care if you use a business or personal identity to receive payments. So you should be able to sign up for Stripe, Square, Shopify, and others without a corp.

In the US, they'll all still require government ID #s (a SSN for individuals or EIN for a business) and I'd assume it's similar in other countries.

I haven't had to"upload a picture of your passport" but I'll bet it's due to new financial regulations that started this past year.

@blogdiva @thejikz

Jay Peach 5d ago

@blogdiva i’ve refused to deal with several creators on the fediverse who only do paypal. Fuck Theil, fuck Musk. Paypal is a money laundering operation.

Ben Pate 🤘🏻3d ago

There are many good reasons to avoid PayPal (I have a list) but this isn't one of them.

All of PayPal's original founders sold all their shares in 2002 (over 20 years ago) and have nothing to do with PayPal anymore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal

@jaypeach00 @blogdiva

PayPal - Wikipedia

Jay Peach 1d ago

@benpate @blogdiva that the robber barons jumped ship matters not to me. Filth remains. I feel the same way about Google. When they dropped the motto “Don’t be Evil”, I was done. Forever. I go by Anonymous’ motto.

Panda San🇵🇷5d ago

@blogdiva y'all can take a page out of Shake Shack's book and use Lightning or Cashu payments. It's a protocol layer above Bitcoin that is more instant, making it suitable enough for Shake Shack to take the plunge because the transaction costs are 50%-ish less than any CC or bank based services.
I'm not a crypto-bro so I'm sure I butchered the explanation but thought I'd throw it out there since it seems to be catching on pretty fast with services like Alby and Zeus.

GhostOnTheHalfShell 5d ago

IIRC, neither of those two ass hats are involved. PayPal was sold off to eBay a number of years ago.

It does not mean that PayPal is good, but the two of them took the money and ran a long time ago

your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦4d ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell the fact they asked me for a copy of my passport and mug-like pics tells me Palantir is somehow involved, so fuckem

GhostOnTheHalfShell 4d ago

I don’t know if data scraping is unique to them. All of them are out to do this all the big fucking platforms.

And yes, that company could be involved because it has been contracting out. I think they have something to do with Starbucks for some fucking reason, but I will never drink Starbucks not voluntarily.

@blogdiva I HATE knowing these bastards take a cut of my Masto donations!

@blogdiva Any Alternatives?

ZenHeathen 🏳️‍🌈

@blogdiva Everything needs an anything that is not Paypal. Paypal is shit, it is evil, it is wrong and bad and everything hell, and I personally have known this for thirty years, long before Asshole Incorporated got involved

Julie Webgirl 5d ago

They want a mugshot too?? 😱

your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦4d ago

@juliewebgirl front and sideways. this was a couple of years ago.

Julie Webgirl 4d ago

@blogdiva
I'm so horrified at that. 😱

Aurora 🐌5d ago

@blogdiva In Spain we have three ethical banks: Triodos, Fiare and Coop57.

They didn't invest in fosil fuels or war industry.

@blogdiva I don't use them. But that said I don't use any payment thingy on the fediverse.

Eric Jennings 4d ago

@blogdiva @SrRochardBunson

but i agree that a less corporate solution for the fedi would be excellent

is there such a thing as a non-corporate finance company?

Sir Rochard 'Dock' Bunson 4d ago

@patamystic @blogdiva maybe if there were a big enough member-owned credit union that could start it?
.
Without having evidence in front of me, I still feel confident that this sort of thing has been actively suppressed.

See the RICO charges brought on the #StopCopCity #activists just for crowdfunding bail bond money.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/06/us/cop-city-protesters-indicted-rico/index.html

61 ‘Cop City’ protesters indicted on RICO charges. Opponents question the timeline and motivation

More than 60 people have been named in a state RICO indictment filed in connection with the yearslong campaign by protesters in Georgia to thwart construction of the Atlanta Public Safety Training Center – dubbed “Cop City” by detractors.

CNN

Ludovic Archivist Lagouardette 4d ago

@SrRochardBunson @patamystic @blogdiva well, I would say that it is suppressed by design. Any payment processor has to pay fees to payment processing systems, and opening fees to Mastercard or Visa are around 100kUSD, so that is a harsh start, then if you do not want to be a bank like PayPal does, you need a partnership with one to hold the money and handle payment failures, which will be both expensive and very time consuming, and will probably cause many problems until you move enough money for the bank to reasonably hire a liaison just for you, which a bank is unlikely to do for an entity they can't buy out themselves

Fugue State Audio 4d ago

@blogdiva When it comes to "fintech," there seems to be no way to avoid giving money to bad actors (not really surprising tbh, considering the entire financial system is basically a cartel). Musk & Thiel are both investors in Stripe as well. Had a harder time finding info on Square, but there are some larger orgs involved there that also have shady ties.

I think @SrRochardBunson is correct that this situation isn't an accident, though I have no hard evidence to show either.

Mx Verda 4d ago

@fstateaudio @blogdiva@mastodon.social @SrRochardBunson even as disabled person who struggles with UK money (and US money tbh), I still just try to use cash where I can now.

@fstateaudio @SrRochardBunson @blogdiva IIRC Jack Dorsey has a big hand in Square? So, yeah, the same assholes everywhere…

Irenes (many)4d ago

@blogdiva oh, yeah, PayPal fucking sucks. they have been harming the trans community for many years.

Irenes (many)4d ago

@blogdiva unfortunately the regulatory hurdles to creating a payment processor are considerable. in past discussions of the topic that we've been involved with, that's pretty much as far as it's gotten. there has to be something better though... maybe there's a credit union that also has money-sending stuff? somewhere? sigh

systemd-jaded 4d ago

@ireneista @blogdiva there's also the option of using ACH or wire payment rails directly through your bank, though this has its own drawbacks like *most* banks not offering masking of account details as a recipient (but some do offer it) as well as not having any real customer protection/reversibility and the fee situation. the latter should be much less for ACH.

credit card related bullshit is one of the major reasons payment processors suck as the credit card companies tend to exercise editorial control slightly over and above what the banks do. there's stuff like iDEAL in NL which is just a fancy UI for doing a SEPA (ACH equivalent) transfer with (i think?) some slightly stricter guarantees on funds availability than SEPA transfers themselves (it doesn't require that the payment settles before guaranteeing the money will go through).

Nova🐧✨3d ago

@ireneista @blogdiva genuinely curious if crypto is a good idea for this? something really stable that is very bad for speculating on like USDC (or something way more stable than that)... you can at least go to physical ATMs to add money to the account and all...

it's often used in DIY HRT too for this reason

Kris Dreemurr (they/them) of the Pnictogen Wing 4d ago

@blogdiva I can't say as how I use PayPal much by choice, but if people put PayPal links about, I pass 'em along as best I can until there's something better ~Chara

Rick Moen 🇺🇸 🇳🇴 🇬🇧4d ago

@blogdiva , Liberapay (French non-profit for recurring payments) is a thing, and I use it to support my beloved Mastodon instance. (Thank you, Jerry!)

Works for Me.[tm]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberapay

Liberapay - Wikipedia

your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦2d ago

@unixmercenary they use Paypal

Ludovic :Firefox: :FreeBSD:4d ago

@blogdiva using monero maybe?

TomasHradcky 4d ago

@blogdiva I think the person behind Bandwagon here on the fediverse is trying to develop that right now and is getting close. I'm not savy enough to know for sure.

https://spectra.video/w/n5pUBMiyaa877whJWZcLpS

FediForum Demo: Bandwagon & Emissary

PeerTube

Ben Pate 🤘🏻3d ago

Thanks for the shout out :)

There are many steps in the chain. I'm connecting to existing payment processors so you can buy Fediverse stuff -- using platforms like Stripe but not replacing them.

I had planned to use PayPal as well, but some technical limits in their platform have forced me to put them on the back burner for now.

Fortunately, there are a number of other good platforms to work with. Square and Shopify are also on my radar.

@TomasHradcky @blogdiva

PaulDavisTheFirst 4d ago

@blogdiva a micropayments fee structure that makes earning most of my living from a lot of very small payments feasible (we save almost $0.25 on every $1 transaction). no feasible alternative to this, and allows us to sell at a price that's right for a lot of the rest of the world.