Lunar Dad
Jay H.People think they miss manufacturing jobs. They don’t. They miss social benefits guaranteed by a union.
40 hour work week? Union won.
Worker’s comp insurance? Union won.
Overtime pay? Union won.
Cassandrich@jhankins This is absolutely true, but I do think people miss feeling like their labor is producing something useful to people like themselves, rather than being a complete and utter bullshit job making their boss even richer and making people like themselves deal with more and more bullshit in their everyday lives.
@dalias also a great point!
fedops 💙💛@fedops @jhankins The idea of a jeans factory in the sense that exists now, producing millions of units with the intent that most be thrown away for tax writeoffs and most of the rest worn a few times and thrown away, is obsolete anyway if we want a world that will continue to be livable.
Imagine instead though that labor were about developing and operating manufacturing technology to produce only what's wanted on demand, materials that last and that can be efficiently reclaimed when they don't, etc.
Instead of jobs to convince & manipulate people to shop for garbage.
@dalias yeah that would be nice. And in itself a much bigger change than "just" leftshoring manufacturing jobs again.
I don't think the phone sanitizers currently at the helm grasp this though, and it won't be in their interest anyway Seeing as they wrongshored everything for their own profit in the first place.
@jhankins
@dalias am frequently thinking back to how quality and long-lasting products were made 100+ years ago. Let's say a cast-iron range, or a trolley car.
A worker was probably at least somewhat proud of their product. But even then capitalism alienated them from this feeling through hardships of labor and existential dread.
@jhankins
Kinene⭐🐻
knack@dalias as someone with a pretty good understanding of tax in one or two jurisdictions - in which tax jurisdiction does it make sense to make things you _intend_ to throw out (as distinct from paying less tax as a result of making less profit because you couldn't sell as many as you made)?
To be clear, I'm not doubting you here, but it seems like a really strange way to structure tax law.
sbi@dalias @fedops @jhankins I have done both and I can tell you that jobs in factories are much harder than the desk jobs most of us are used to — even if they happen to be more meaningful than many desk jobs are (which most aren't). If you want better conditions in your job, then you do not want to build cars on a conveyor belt or saw jeans. No, you just want: better conditions in your job. (It would of course be great of the people at the conveyor belt would get better conditions, too.)
Space Hobo@spacehobo @jhankins Factory yes, but factory is also pretty much entirely junk work (see downthread). I had in mind roles that are actually involved in building the infrastructure of human civilization, not mass produced garbage to convince people to buy, and that actually involve human skills, not using a human as a more expendable substitute for an expensive machine.
Jay@spacehobo @dalias @jhankins
100% true, but OTOH it now _has_ hit office work (certainly in my case), which (in theory) should help the "workers by hand or by brain" (as UK Labour's old clause IV had it) that they're all on the same side...
100% true, but OTOH it now _has_ hit office work (certainly in my case), which (in theory) should help the "workers by hand or by brain" (as UK Labour's old clause IV had it) that they're all on the same side...
ResunaCharlie Chaplin, Modern Times.
Eli the Bearded@resuna @spacehobo @dalias @jhankins
How about Lordstown strike of 1972? Besides tedious work, the workers also had an unsympathetic union leadership who didn't feel the same need to "make a difference".
Daveography 🇨🇦
Fluchtkapsel
Sharp Leaves
The Turtle@jhankins yeah, manufacturing sucked about as much as any jobs (possibly worse, due to dangerous machinery) until the 1940s.
Luke (Shiv)@jhankins I think a lot of people that "miss" these jobs also view them as "man's work" (which is bullshit if you've been in modern factory). So they do also want the benefits and stability, but also I think they want a boys club and to feel superior to service workers.
a fish named dog ✡️♾️@jhankins If you don't have a union: join one. If there isn't a union, found one! Unions will help.
From the largest one in the US, the AFL-CIO: aflcio.org/formaunion
United Food and Commercial Workers Union: ufcw.org/union-101
United Steelworkers: usw.org/start-a-union
United Autoworkers: uaw.org/join
UNITE HERE: https://unitehere.org/organize-a-union/
NewsGuild: https://newsguild.org/organize-with-us/
And others!
Many also have buying guides. AFL-CIO: https://aflcio.org/MadeInAmerica & unionlabel.org
UAW: https://uaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/2022-UAW-Shopping-Guide-full-28-pages.pdf.
Organize A Union With UNITE HERE
UNITE HERE members work in hotels, casinos, stadiums, cafeterias, airport concessions and airline catering, apparel factories, restaurants and similar industries. With a union, we have power and a voice with our employers and elected officials. We fight for health care, safety and respect in our workplaces. There’s never been a better time to organize a […]
Robin Barton@jhankins Productivity was much higher when unions were around. Who knew that having a decent wage and a pension along with job security made workers more productive. I sure didn't see that coming
Primo@jhankins I think there is something romantizable about being part of making things too.
Alison Wilder@jhankins Won't they be surprised when they experience the new American factory? 🤮
Toni Aittoniemi@jhankins Nail on the head.
All that ”belonging in something meaningful” too: union.
DianeI have a hunch that it's the rich who miss manufacturing jobs.
The oil executives are mad about people telecommuting instead of commuting reducing demand for their product, and the commercial real estate owners are mad that knowledge workers are perfectly capable of working from home which wrecks their commercial real estate investments.
The rich also seem to get off at standing around and watching the poor toiling under their boots.
Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands@jhankins Also worth noting, the same union power that got us the 40 hour work week was aiming for us to be at 20 hour work weeks by now. We don't have that because union power was gutted after getting us those benefits.
GreyCat, Red Mage@jhankins ooh yeah! can't wait to see 9 year olds working 16 hour shifts at the dismemberment factory for eighteen cents a day, progress babyyyyy
Kevin LaRose,aka Grumpasaurus
Alex Keane@jhankins See also the "didn't need to go into tons of debt for a shot at a good job" argument.
Just that same argument with bonus class warfare on white vs. Blue collar
David H. McCoyThey miss other people working factory jobs.
Wm.sonAnd the corporates hate unions. Lots of people blame unions for companies sending jobs overseas, but it was corporate greed.
KathmanduThis is true. I'm in a union. I have a white-collar office job, and I have annual raises, overtime rates when I agree to work extra hours, and firm protection against being squeezed for extra work off the clock. It's great.
levampyre5 day work week (i.e. weekends). Union won.
Paid sick leave. Union won.
Paid time off. Union won.
Health & safety regulations. Union won.
Minimum wage. Union won.
These are examples from Europe, of course. But you see what you can achieve when you stand together as a group of workers.
I've heard younger colleagues dismiss unionizing efforts and talks about workers rights so often. These sweet summer children don't know what they got til it's gone.
Stand together! Unionize!
MamiyaMan 🇨🇦 🇺🇦@jhankins Paid vacation, sick leave, stat holidays etc etc.