smolnesoApr 20, 2025
Deviant Ollam

"Learn the difference between 'helping' and being 'helpy'"

~ @wendynather at #BSidesSEA

(If all you are doing is pointing at things and saying "look I found all these problems" you're not helping, you're being helpy... Being "helpy" allows you to claim that you're part of the process and a valuable part of the team and it makes you visible in meetings but doesn't actually improve anything.)

Apr 19, 2025 at 4:45pmWeb
Show threadDanielle CrawfordApr 19, 2025
@deviantollam @wendynather @alice I’d send this to my team members, but they’d just be helpy about the contents of this presentation
Show threadAKingsburyApr 19, 2025

@deviantollam @wendynather

"It's good to point out problems. It's better to include solutions."

Show threadSeán FenianApr 19, 2025
@deviantollam @wendynather With the proviso that there is a distinct difference between "Look, I found all the problems" and "I think that this is the set of problems we need to solve." You can't progress on solving problems until you first understand what the problems to be solved are.
Show threadDeviant OllamApr 19, 2025
@zakalwe @wendynather This is true, but it's important to recognize that no one's job should be limited *exclusively* to "finding" problems
Show threadSeán FenianApr 19, 2025
@deviantollam @wendynather Absolutely. The next step should be "Here's what I think may be a good approach to solving this particular problem."

(And if I had a buck for every time the response was akin to "We don't consider solving that a priority, we're focused on adding this new feature [which will make the problem worse]"...)
Show threadAlexApr 19, 2025
@deviantollam @wendynather in all honesty, I have been burned whenever I try to actually help so I just don't bother anymore.
Show threadnexApr 19, 2025
@deviantollam That's such a great word! I hope it'll spread everywhere, so I can talk about how extremely helpy LLM chat bots are.
Show threadNicolas Ward Apr 19, 2025
@deviantollam @wendynather @wlonk I'm not familiar with this term but it sounds like a familiar aspect of Minnesota Nice... for example, offering to wash up after a dinner party, knowing your host would politely refuse. You get the points for offering to help (both from host and other guests who see you offering) but don't actually have to do anything.
Show threadVincarsiApr 19, 2025
@deviantollam @wendynather can I add another definition of "helpy"? When you go around doing a bunch of things that aren't actually helpful then expect full credit because "at least I tried". Yes, trying is better than not trying. But if you didn't actually improve my situation yet still expect reciprocation for your effort, you're leaving me at a deficit. Worst kind of people to have around when you're ill/burnt out
Show threadCaz BrennanApr 19, 2025
@deviantollam @wendynather Helpy people usually end up making the problem solving meeting go on for twice as long as it needs to.
Show threadNonya BidnissApr 20, 2025
@deviantollam @wendynather OMG. This absolutely nails this pair of old bureaucrat guys who'd always come in on the tail end of a hard project I'd been working on with my team and suddenly they have suggestions and try to be part of it after the hard work was done. Having a traumatic work flashback, thanks 😂 HELPY
Show threadPhoto Ewen 📷Apr 20, 2025

@deviantollam @wendynather

I remember one CEO who used to get cranky at people who brought him problems instead of solutions.

Which depends on the nature of the problem, and the pay level of the person ringing the alarm. If someone pays me to fix a set of problems, not just describe them, then yeah it's not much point being "helpy" instead of delivering on my role.

Show threadJeffrey HaasApr 20, 2025

@ewen @deviantollam @wendynather It is a toxic leadership trait to require someone highlighting a problem to bring the solution, or to own solving it.

All this does is incentivize staying quiet.

Show threadWendy NatherApr 21, 2025
@jhaas @ewen @deviantollam Gosh, that sounds like a big problem. What are you going to do about it?
Show threadWilliam @ A9Apr 25, 2025
@jhaas then they aren’t the one to fix it and their opinion is just an observation.
Show threadYazadApr 20, 2025
@deviantollam @wendynather I’d really love to hear this talk and recommend to my colleagues. Saw a few slide screenshots and I loved the wisdom being shared. What’s the title of this presentation or better is there a link to this talk? Thanks for sharing 😊
Show threadWendy NatherApr 20, 2025
@yazad3 @deviantollam It was called “Falling Off the Edge, and How to Help” — and I imagine it will be posted at some point, but I couldn’t tell you when, as the tired organizers need to rest now that the conference is over 🙂
Show threadYazadApr 20, 2025
@wendynather @deviantollam thank you, can’t wait!
Show threadBenjaminApr 21, 2025
@deviantollam @wendynather I am 100% planning to be helpy and not helpful at my new job until they fire me.
Show threadSean BootsApr 23, 2025
@deviantollam @wendynather @leeo Whew, that's very very good. 💯