Jeff GeerlingDon't make me connect my dishwasher to your stupid cloud.
Full video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M_hmwBBPnc
YouTube
RedTechEngineer@geerlingguy I can't wait for the future where you have to pay for a detergent pod subscription to wash dishes.
Third party detergents are incompatible and the washer will not run.
Third party detergents are incompatible and the washer will not run.
四@geerlingguy Only two explanations I can’t think of is to monitor people, or try to make them used to this so they’ll just lock the whole thing behind a paid service.
Either way I’m always looking for non connected appliances at this point.
Which is very sad, because home automation is really cool, and I like it. But it has to be my own private service.
Jeff Triplett@geerlingguy I get it, but I don't hate it. My dishwasher and dryer connect to the cloud, meaning they work with HA. I get mostly maintenance and an occasional notice when our water froze up, which was helpful. Being able to remote start is nice too.
I get how a common feature is annoying to use the app-only, though.
warnimonster@webology @geerlingguy but wouldn’t it be great if it could connect to HA locally, not through the cloud?
rick@geerlingguy so true.. I hate it..
John Refior@geerlingguy
Isn't it for advertising/marketing/consumer surveillance purposes?
Isn't it for advertising/marketing/consumer surveillance purposes?
Michael T Babcock@geerlingguy watched this at lunch today, great rant, would love to see right to repair legislation include some form of "right to local access" provision that forces manufacturers to allow local functionality without cloud accounts.
Mikalai@mikebabcock @geerlingguy
Better: right to local control
Cause that software is control.
Better wording is "Local Control".
Better: right to local control
Cause that software is control.
Better wording is "Local Control".
Torsten CurdtI am not sure what is more infuriating: The price for the mainboard for a repair of the old machine or making some features only being available via cloud on the new one.
If the cloud was optional - fine. But like this, it's almost false advertisement.
You should reach out to Bosch and ask for a statement.
We could also gather more stories like that and make a wall of shame. Wait, didn't Louis Rossmann create a wiki for that?
Strawberry Pigtails@geerlingguy @tcurdt As cool as that would be, he list would be so long as to make it unusable. Who do you buy from when every name you know is on the wall of shame.
Anyone know if someone has made its opposite? A “wall of pride” perhaps? A list of companies that make products that allow local control? Best I know of is the Home Assistant integrations page and that is very much not separated by country, and only loosely by product category.
Greg Brooks@geerlingguy We recently bought a similar Bosch, I forget the model number. I have an Iot vlan, but just aren’t hooking it up. Will take the default wash cycle settings forever.
Lenny@geerlingguy It's like IPv4/IPv6 multicast doesn't exist to those people. Unimaginable lack of imagination.
I think the EU should regulate that:
1. Require open sourcing the protocol at the very least.
2. Make local-only connection support mandatory.
@geerlingguy Thanks for the video, would like to watch it on the fediverse :) #unplugtrump
BacteriaRecently bought a Bosch Freestanding dishwasher for 600 USD. It has a screen, has no wifi and has hard pressable buttons.
I have no idea why can't Bosch include a screen for an integrated one and provide it for free standing one.
Matt Gallagher@geerlingguy Making previously local features dependent on a remote service is hideous.
The only non-conspiracy reason why a company might do this is: supporting home local-networking is *miserable*. You can waste your whole life trying to help customers configure their local networks and still fail.
Matter, especially Matter over Thread, is the latest effort to fix this properly but it will be 3-5 years before it's widespread enough for whitegoods (if it ever works as promised).
But I'll remain skeptical until there's more than a couple popular devices supporting Thread.
Of course, I'm jaded and curmudgeonly. I previously maintained a number of home network media streaming apps and support is the primary reason I shut them down.
Dawid@geerlingguy you can have a look: https://github.com/zibous/homeconnect-hcpy
Description says that it allows local connections with Home Connect devices
GitHub - zibous/homeconnect-hcpy: Python tool to talk to Home Connect appliances over the local network (no cloud required)
Python tool to talk to Home Connect appliances over the local network (no cloud required) - GitHub - zibous/homeconnect-hcpy: Python tool to talk to Home Connect appliances over the local network ...
@djvdq First time you still have to create a Home Connect account, download the app, connect the dishwasher—then after all that, you can use the Python library to connect locally.
@geerlingguy oh right. I was too fast and did not read it carefully l. Sorry 😐
Thijs JanssenInteresting video by @geerlingguy
Stupid unnecessary internet connection for devices.
Stupid unnecessary internet connection for devices.
Matthew Hill@geerlingguy Sometimes I really, really wish we had better laws. Actually, make that most of the time...
jona@geerlingguy Soon, they'll go full printer and only allow the use of Genuine Bosch™ tabs®, huh?
This really is a broken timeline
This really is a broken timeline
Mieszko Ślusarczyk@geerlingguy Isn’t the connection at least partially local (screenshot from my Home Connect app with the dishwasher).
Shane Celis@geerlingguy “Big Server is watching you.”
Danil@geerlingguy
in this context I know - farmers pay monthly subscription to "cameras-software" that track livestock - everything located on "farmer computer" - but - all statistic uploaded to "cloud" - and only way to see it - is monthly subscription to software.
And there no alternatives.
Same with factory-software - everything under monthly subscription - even basic "open/close door" auto-switch - it need internet to function and payment.
It just getting to consumer market.
horstworst@geerlingguy
Recently, I was also faced with the problem of deciding on a new dishwasher. All of them, really all of them, had wifi built in. No matter where I asked if there were any machines without wifi, they all said no. In the end, I bought a sub-brand from Siemens/Bosch: Constructa. It was cheaper, exactly the same and had real buttons instead. All needed functions usable offline.
Recently, I was also faced with the problem of deciding on a new dishwasher. All of them, really all of them, had wifi built in. No matter where I asked if there were any machines without wifi, they all said no. In the end, I bought a sub-brand from Siemens/Bosch: Constructa. It was cheaper, exactly the same and had real buttons instead. All needed functions usable offline.
Peter Kisner ≈@horstworst @geerlingguy
Having had to spec out which glasswashers we needed for a lab in the last year, I'm sort of surprised we didn't run into this issue. But, as of last year, the couple companies we choose didn't have obligate wifi.
Having had to spec out which glasswashers we needed for a lab in the last year, I'm sort of surprised we didn't run into this issue. But, as of last year, the couple companies we choose didn't have obligate wifi.
ElectroFetish@geerlingguy capitalism has reached its progress and cannot remain as a static entity. Further only paid subscriptions...
Stephen De Gabrielle@geerlingguy time for a brain transplant.(replace the control module)
I welcome the open source software dishwasher future.
I welcome the open source software dishwasher future.
@geerlingguy https://mastodon.online/@davidaugust/114236433226999789 this one probably doesn't require cloud, so certainly an improvement.
David August (@[email protected])
Attached: 1 video The internet of things is truly a wonder. 😝 #dishwasher #parody #iot
K5KGTNo, it works as an amazing dishwasher. That's what happens when 1. you drop your subscription, or 2. you have bad internet connectivity. It's on the user to do better.
gunstick@flo @geerlingguy I just copied that one to send to you. Oh well, I see it's already making the round!
Andreas Kruthoff@geerlingguy There are other models https://m.g3l.org/@MedBel/114236225030348929
MedBel (@[email protected])
Attaché : 1 vidéo Voici une machine à laver la vaisselle en mode Béta (voir Alpha) :troll:
Eelco Mulder 
🇪🇺Jeff, did this have any response from Bosch? How did you finally solve the issue (if at all?)
I'd love to hook up mine to HomeAssistant, but when I found out the Bosch HC was cloud-only, I never hooked the dishwasher to my WiFi. I am however lucky to have a model with a display.
petur 😶🇺🇦🇵🇸🇹🇼@voorstad
I doubt it, and same goes for Siemens, same tech. Mine also has a display and it's on a VLAN so it can NTP for the clock 🙄
@geerlingguy
I doubt it, and same goes for Siemens, same tech. Mine also has a display and it's on a VLAN so it can NTP for the clock 🙄
@geerlingguy