Petter NaslundMar 21, 2025
Jon S. von Tetzchner

The damage that Big Tech has done to news sites and media should not be underestimated.

It used to be that you would buy tech ads on tech media outlets. That was the best way to reach that audience. Now Big Tech makes a profile on you, which notes that you visit tech media sites. That information is then used when selling ads based on your profile.

The only real solution is to ban user profiling and go back to context sensitive ads. I think that kind of ads, as long as they are not using popups and the like, would be more acceptable to the public as well. People just do not like being tracked. Who would have thought?

https://techcrunch.com/2025/03/21/google-claims-news-is-worthless-to-its-ad-business-after-test-involving-1-of-search-results-in-eight-eu-markets/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=threads

#BigTech #Google #Microsoft #Regulation #surveillance #Technology

Google claims news is worthless to its ad business after test involving 1% of search results in eight EU markets | TechCrunch

Google has reported the results of an experiment it ran which removed news from search results for 1% of users for 2.5 months in eight* markets in Europe

TechCrunch
Mar 21, 2025 at 12:49pmWeb
Show threadgaryMar 21, 2025
@jon 99% of them have no idea the extent of tracking and profiling though - fair to say
Show threadDan SeitzMar 21, 2025
@jon Having worked in media I'd LOVE to blame Google et. al. But the basic reality is that the whole ad side of the industry was rotten well before Google sold a single ad. Jim O'Shea's "The Deal From Hell" is a must-read in this regard.
Show threadDan SeitzMar 21, 2025

@jon There are three big problems here:

1) Ad sales cannot support a publication at this point.
2) Ad tech/profiling does not work.
3) The data we get from advertising tells us the whole ad model is flawed.

Show threadDan SeitzMar 21, 2025
@jon The whole digital publishing boom of the late 00s and mid 10s was essentially VCs being fleeced for millions on the promise that some third tier site would be the New York Times for millennials.
Show threadDan SeitzMar 21, 2025
@jon Even now there's this relentless spiral of growing ad inventory driving down ad rates, and the response is to add more ad inventory at a cheaper price. Nobody seems to think this might end poorly.
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Mar 22, 2025

@Dseitz The same pattern that got us into this mess, in other words. Because the rates are nearing zero, it made more sense for us to do without that income and to promote our own companyʼs things and a few clientsʼ. The return is actually better.

@jon

Show threadDan SeitzMar 22, 2025
@jackyan @Dseitz @jon Yeah, more and more unsold inventory is going to this approach.
Show threadJon S. von TetzchnerMar 21, 2025

@Dseitz

When we had contextual ads, things worked better. IMHO we should go back to that by banning user profiling and thus surveillance based ads.

Show threadDan SeitzMar 21, 2025
@jon @Dseitz Frankly surveillance based ads would worry me a lot more if anybody actually used the data, but they don't, because the data is fundamentally useless.
Show threadDan SeitzMar 21, 2025
@jon @Dseitz One thing I point out to people is yes, very occasionally there is this freaky moment where an ad seems perfectly targeted to you. But consider how many ads you see in a day where that DOESN'T happen. It's just dumb luck.
Show threadJon S. von TetzchnerMar 21, 2025

@Dseitz

That data is also used to decide what you see on social media sites and wherever popularity based content algorithms are in use. That is likely a major reason for the division in society.

Show threadDan SeitzMar 21, 2025
@jon @Dseitz I work in marketing and used to work in publishing, I've worked with these tools, and it has left me deeply skeptical of their supposed power and effectiveness, because everyone forgets one VERY important factor here: Personal inclination and choice.
Show threadDan SeitzMar 21, 2025
@jon @Dseitz People have agency. They make choices. There is no algorithm that gets past free will. It's not a pleasant thought, but it's one we have to deal with.
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Mar 22, 2025

@jon This works for me. I block trackers, not ads. This always triggers the message that I am blocking ads. No, itʼs not me, itʼs actually the site. Because none of their ads are untracked, they wind up serving nothing. But if they had some contextual ads, then they would appear.

@Dseitz

Show threadISDMar 21, 2025
@jon Heh, I'm almost surprised Google's test result wasn't along the lines of "based on our tests news are so worthless that *you* should pay *us* to include them in our results!" 😋
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Mar 21, 2025
@jon We promised last December we would remove ads with tracking from our websites in 2025. We achieved that very early, in January. It wasnʼt hard, and I wish others would do the same.
Show threadzephMar 21, 2025
@jon I notice you never critique reddit despite it being a 'big tech'. As of recent, it has been going all out with bots across the site, deep censorship, algorithms following users across the site for the purpose of flagging/pre-banning from certain subs, and all-around unfriendly behavior towards certain categories of users. It is what you claim X is, only on speed. Reddit is practically an e-stalking site now.
Show thread🐈‍⬛David SommersethMar 21, 2025

@jon I could probably be acceptive to ads if they weren't so attention seeking. Animations, contrast colouring, taking a lot of screen space ... All of that just makes me really annoyed (to say it very politely).

If an ad would blend in like other posts, I would still spot it and more likely click it if it would match my current needs.

I don't want or need ads telling me what I might want or push products into my face.

And that's why I block all ads. Because too many just do the latter and it's easier to just block it all at once.

And of course your points on tracking users, that goes without saying. Such tracking is ruining everything even more.

Show threadTechsorcistMar 21, 2025

@jon Its a fair point but the problem is that once you get past an inflection point the tech giants wield such enormous political power that they can easily kill any attempt to regulate them. Both by buying the top of the pyramide and by influencing the bottom with ai bots and algorithms.

The US, I'm fairly certain, is crashing down the deep end. The #EU still has a chance. I hope that societal pressure and politicians like @mariekekoekkoek can help us weather the storm and come out on top.

Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Mar 24, 2025
@jon Random question, Jon: is this something Vivaldi would ever get into? Your own non-tracking ad network? I realize there’s a whole infrastructure needed here as well as QA personnel …
Show threadJon S. von TetzchnerMar 24, 2025

@jackyan

I think there is a lot more to it than that. It is not just about technology. I think we stay with what we know, building a great browser!

Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Mar 24, 2025
@jon That makes sense, Jon. Eight years and counting with Vivaldi here. I switched over around the time Google wrecked Vivaldiʼs ad account, “coincidentally” after you wrote something (rightly) critical of them.
Show threadThePfromtheOApr 4, 2025
@jon Who would have thought?
Yeah, WHO?!