MostlyHarmless
Government: You owe us money; it's called taxes.
Me: How much do I owe?
Government: You have to figure that out.
Me: I just pay what I want?
Government: Oh no, we know exactly how much you owe. But you have to guess that number too.
Me: What if I get it wrong?
Government: You go to prison.
Feb 27, 2025 at 8:14amWeb
Show threadGrimmoFeb 27, 2025
@MostlyHarmless exactly this. It drives me nuts!
Show threadTimothy WolodzkoFeb 27, 2025
@MostlyHarmless Move to Poland. The happy path, that would apply to vast majority of people, is that once a year you visit the government website and click a button confirming that they got all the sources of your income right and you are done. It takes like 10 minutes/year.
Show threadRegFeb 27, 2025
@MostlyHarmless
Kafka nailed this.
Show threadDavid Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)Feb 27, 2025

@MostlyHarmless This is a peculiarly American problem driven by two special-interest groups:

  • 'Small government' conservatives want paying tax to be difficult so that people hate it.
  • Companies that produce software for completing tax returns want it to be difficult so that they can sell software to do it.

In the UK, most people never complete a tax return. They pay through Pay As You Earn (PAYE) where the tax is deducted each month as you pay. If they over or underpay one year, the PAYE rate is adjusted the next year to compensate (unless it's a huge amount). If you do have to complete a tax return, the employment bit is usually easy: it should be prepopulated, but if not then you just need to copy a couple of numbers from a standard form that every employer is required to give you. It's only difficult if you have a load of investments and other income, and even then you just fill in a web form with the information and they tell you how much you owe. If it's a smallish amount (a few thousand or less) then they adjust your PAYE rate next year to collect it. Otherwise you have to pay it, but they tell you exactly how much.

Show threadNathaniel HörnblowérFeb 27, 2025
@david_chisnall @MostlyHarmless Don't forget we get "refunds" so there is a love/hate aspect. We've conditioned people to use it like savings where you loan the govt money and get some back each spring.
Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPEFeb 27, 2025
@david_chisnall @MostlyHarmless I once paid an accountant to do a complicated capital gains tax return involving a house sale, but apart from that you just collect a few numbers and type them into a web form.
Show threadcryptogopherFeb 27, 2025
@MostlyHarmless I don't think they “know exactly.” They certainly have some rough estimate of minimum earnings. But there may be some sources of income that are still out of their reach. That's why they try to intimidate you into reporting as much as possible. They also probably don't know your tax-deductible expenses. Note: I am not defending the income tax, which is an unnecessary bureaucracy. I'm just stating that your story is oversimplified.
Show threaddavidfFeb 27, 2025
@MostlyHarmless So glad we have (PAYE) - pay as you earn, in the UK.
Show threadcalcifer 🧯Feb 28, 2025

@davidf @MostlyHarmless most Americans also “pay as you earn”: we call it “income tax withholding”. Then they file a return at year end, and most receive a refund as they’ve withheld slightly more than they actually owe.

For most people, tax filing is quite simple. It’s essentially a data entry exercise; anyone with whom you’ve made money sends you forms, you enter their information into the 1040 form, and do some simple math. Yes, it’s also completely unnecessary to have it set up this way, and it could be made even simpler, but the claims that it’s complicated are massively overstated (for most people).

SOME people have complex tax situations. Most do not. People stress a lot because there is a lot of misinformation (mostly from tax prep companies) is all.

Show threadChrisFeb 28, 2025

@MostlyHarmless
Me: Okay, can I at least ask you guys for help if I don't know how to calculate something?
Gov: Sure, but if what we tell you is wrong, it's your fault.

(True at least for Germany)

Show threadChrisFeb 28, 2025
@MostlyHarmless
Me: Okay, so what if I just don't tell you any number at all? Surely then we can just use yours?
Gov: No. In that case we guess a new, absurdly high number and you can either pay that or prove us wrong.